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  • I seem to recall in my FCA cav days, there were seven roles that Cavalry were tasked with, I don't seem to recall them emphasising any over the others in terms of importance. Recon, counter-recon, independent operations (or raiding, if you prefer), flank screening... Can't recall the other three offhand. Now, if the cav decided it could afford to drop the counter-recon or independent ops roles, then they could afford to go with smaller vehicles.

    But other militaries have used large vehicles in the rece role eg yanks and the M3 Bradley.
    Not the most successful usage of a recon vehicle. A lot of units traded in their Bradleys for HMMWVs as they were just too big. Not so much for the conspicuosness, but because they were a little too big for mobility purposes.

    That said, there have also been plenty of successful uses of tanks in recon units. The older US Cav Platoons used to be two tanks, two PCs with dismounts, a mortar carrier, and a couple of jeeps. Gave them an excellent combination of abilities, I thought. German recon units also would often have Leopard tanks along for the heavy recon/counter-recon role, they were only withdrawn from that role relatively recently, that I recall. These days, as much for cost and logistics as anything else, the US and German recon units have been homogenised.

    In the recce role the armament is purely defensive in the event of becoming embroiled in a fire fight.
    Not necessarily. It depends on what it is you're attempting to recce. German recon units of WWII could be particularly heavily armed, and they were expected to fight for two reasons. Firstly, because the heavy recon role involves punching through the counter-recon screen and blocking positions, looking for information on enemy locations far further back than a light recon unit could go by just sneaking around. Secondly, when conducting these deeper recon roles, they were armed sufficiently that they could take on and destroy targets of opportunity like convoys, refuelling/maintainance depots, and the sort. This is particularly more important if your army happens not to have much by way of long-range artillery or convenient air power.

    NTM
    Last edited by California Tanker; 9 August 2007, 00:54.
    Driver, tracks, troops.... Drive and adjust!!

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    • Its all changed since your day CT. Big changes.


      Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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      • seem to recall in my FCA cav days, there were seven roles that Cavalry were tasked with, I don't seem to recall them emphasising any over the others in terms of importance
        Well bearing in mind that we had FN rifles and OG combats last time you were around things have changed.....and bear in mind its no longer the FCA..and we do all our camps as part of PDF exercise now...yes a lot has changed.

        What was the Armour Troop in a Squdaron is now gone..no mortars..lots of Sraaws , Recce trp is the only actual primary trp. 72hr medium range CTR is now the secondary , convoy protection,role, Route recce, flank protection casualty evac and supplying replacements..fire support is no longer on the list.The PSO type operations refocussed what the Cav was to do. With the phasing out of the specialits roles within conventional ops, the Cav were left with the option to adapt to the CTR role or die.

        The idea behind having the heavily armed mowag is to be able to drop a CTR team to withing 10km of the propsed recce, pull out and be able to come back and collect the team and provide firesupport for a withdrawl..all within one vehicle being able to carry all the gear required for the mission and the men..and being able to protect themselves, the men and the mission

        The 30mm equiped mowag is ideal for this.

        The fire support the Corps has is for its own protection. Recce for the Corps is not always advance to contact and engage .
        Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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        • There are 2 types of recce - recce by fire & by stealth

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          • Oh God.......purpose of gathering intell at brigade level drawing fire gives away your position and discloses your strenghts.

            It seems very few understand the concept of the ops...and even fewer are au fait with current DF thinking on what the Cav role is

            And then there are the many who have no idea about the issue.
            Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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            • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
              Oh God.......purpose of gathering intell at brigade level drawing fire gives away your position and discloses your strenghts.
              Tracer fire works both ways - Murphys Law of Combat Ops, believe it or not recce by fire is practiced by some countries, although usually they are better equipped than DF cavalry in terms of firepower & protection.

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              • yeah, but Recce by fire is only really of any use when your enemy already knows you're there!

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                • Mowag with 90mikemike turret for belgian army.

                  Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

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                  • I seem to recall there was much furore over that one. Something to do with the gun being made in the Minister of Defence's constituency, despite not being the preferred gun to be selected.

                    NTM
                    Driver, tracks, troops.... Drive and adjust!!

                    Comment


                    • If you increase the size of the main arnament on the Mowag

                      do you reduce the amount of personnel it can fit in

                      ie- shells for a 90mm weapon must take up more space than .5 shells
                      Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
                      Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
                      The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
                      The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
                      The best lack all conviction, while the worst
                      Are full of passionate intensity.

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                      • presumably a 90mm mowag would be used as a gun platform in cav role and not a taxi for infantry so a reduced seating capacity wouldn't be an issue. although maybe a few seats for recce teams, OP teams might be useful.
                        An army is power. Its entire purpose is to coerce others. This power can not be used carelessly or recklessly. This power can do great harm. We have seen more suffering than any man should ever see, and if there is going to be an end to it, it must be an end that justifies the cost. Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain

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                        • Originally posted by California Tanker View Post
                          I seem to recall there was much furore over that one. Something to do with the gun being made in the Minister of Defence's constituency, despite not being the preferred gun to be selected.

                          NTM
                          Big time! The Belgians are the only people using this system. In fact even the correct ammunition is scarce. This kind of thing happens alot in Belgium, due in part to the revalries between French/Flemish speakers.

                          Alot of the local arms manufacturers, and Belgium has quite a few, have been annoyed lately that they have lost out to foreign designs such as the Pirhana and Dingo.

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                          • In DID's July 2005 article covering Belgium's impending defense purchases, we noted that country's Armoured Infantry Vehicle (AIV) program to replace its 132 Leopard 1A5BE main battle tanks, as well as its AIFV and M113 armored personnel carriers, with


                            Heres a good article about the Belgian Pirhana procurment, including the controversies

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                            • Hi all,
                              I worked in Belgium and the Flemish/Walloon divide was real, in that it was like the Taigs versus Prods situation here.You had ultras who would turf the other lot across the border at gunpoint; others who would split Belgium in two, like the Czech republic and Slovakia and the rest who couldn't care less.
                              Apart from that, Belgians are as provincial, parochial and protectionist as we are.
                              regards
                              GttC

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                              • The problem in Belgium is the system of governemnt, ie Flemish, Waloon and Federal. The Flemish region is the more economically successful and they feel that the French speaking Walloon region get a disproportionate cut of federal coffers. Living and working there(Walloonia) at the moment.

                                It's not all bad though-there's A-10 and F-16's or even Aplha jets around the place every day and someone will do a low level high speed pass down the runway most days.

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