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  • #61
    Originally posted by ias
    Does anyone know if the Volvo (Timoney) HMT 8x8 was considered?

    IAS
    I thought that was only a technology test bed?

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    • #62
      If each varied class of vehicle (eg the TCV fleet) was replaced by a single type the purchase price per unit would be lower.

      Obviously, the costs involved would prohibit the delivery taking place in one go, the order could be placed for example for 200. The deliveries could take place over 5 years or more.
      Last edited by DeV; 26 July 2004, 17:28.

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      • #63
        The tendering system does not work that way. We cannot replace every truck in the DF in one go. As it is the tender process takes into account the unit cost per vehicle,including projected cost of parts.

        The people who do the selection of these trucks probably know a bit more about the process than you do. Even if they have not read Karl Martins book..


        Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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        • #64
          MN, I think you're confusing the Volvo/Timoney 8x8 HMT with a vehicle developed for the UKs DERA (Qinetic?). Timoney supplied the axels and suspension for that vehicle, it was a 6x6 by the way.

          IAS

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          • #65
            Originally posted by ias
            MN, I think you're confusing the Volvo/Timoney 8x8 HMT with a vehicle developed for the UKs DERA (Qinetic?). Timoney supplied the axels and suspension for that vehicle, it was a 6x6 by the way.

            IAS
            Your're right, that was a hybrid-electric vehicle

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Goldie fish
              The tendering system does not work that way. We cannot replace every truck in the DF in one go. As it is the tender process takes into account the unit cost per vehicle,including projected cost of parts.

              The people who do the selection of these trucks probably know a bit more about the process than you do. Even if they have not read Karl Martins book..
              The people who select these vehicles do know what they are doing, but their recommendations are not always taken. The last selection process for 3/4 ton vehicles (nissans), chose the Isuzu Trooper to be the next vehicle for the army & gardai. But nissan dropped their price, won the contract, and that's why we have utility vehicles with carpets and cloth seats. The seletion was based on price, not ability and durability. By the way the gardai got the troopers.
              CRIME SCENE INSTIGATOR

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              • #67
                There are generally 2 types of basic contract, a once-off that currently in use for the major of purchasing programmes & a "call-off" contract, the one I'm talking about, where a contract is made for, eg 5000 smocks or 200 trucks, is placed and then orders are placed in batches as required. This is on the e-tenders website.

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                • #68
                  Dev..I think..in the real world,you have to accept that this type of contract is for less expensive items,such as socks and T shirts....
                  Not trucks.


                  Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    On the recent deployment to shannon it was discovered that the new IVECO truck was incapabable of towing its own trailer and 90% of the Iveco force was stranded due to transmission problems during the exercise ...due to incapabilities of towing their designed load.

                    Another disaster for the logs deployment shower!:D
                    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                    • #70
                      I believe one of the problems with the Iveco Astra is the drivers keep forgetting to switch off the differential lock...


                      Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by hptmurphy
                        On the recent deployment to shannon it was discovered that the new IVECO truck was incapabable of towing its own trailer and 90% of the Iveco force was stranded due to transmission problems during the exercise ...due to incapabilities of towing their designed load.

                        Another disaster for the logs deployment shower!:D
                        As usual a vehicle picked by the officers, rather than the operators and repair staff, turns out not to be suitable. After all no matter what badge you put on an Iveco it will always be a Fiat at heart, no problem for a small car (I drive one myself) but a fiat truck? No thanks.

                        At least it would appear that the lesson has been learnt, and we are now purchasing the Scania. The proper solution would have been to buy some of the Hino Drops vehicles that the Brits sold off at the same time as we were buying Iveco's. According to sources we could have gotten 3 for the price of one Iveco, and they were all under 20000 miles
                        CRIME SCENE INSTIGATOR

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                        • #72
                          in fairness these things are tendered out, they can only give the contract to those who apply and within the budget that they are working to.
                          You're even dumber than I tell people

                          You might have been infected but you never were a bore

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                          • #73
                            I believe we were offered MAN DROPS 8x8(serious monster) around the same time as we got the Iveco Ashtrays(Iveco has always been a good truck commercially. Remember Fiat are a part of Scuderia,who also own Ferarri and Alfa Romeo.)

                            However one of the difficulties which are easily overlooked are the needs of the DF at any one time as regards transport. A lot depends on the mission at the time. For example,during the UNISOM missions, the priority was a military transport with "rough road" ability. Mostly elderly MANs went over there,with hastily aquired drawbar trailers. A decision was then possibly taken to get more trucks of this type,in the belief that the mission would continue for a longer period,and the mercedes was bought,as the MAN 4x4 was not available in quantity at short notice. Then UNISOM ended... So we went to the balkans,where the roads were relatively good,and commercial trucks were suitable,so lots of Renaults and DAF tractor units were bought. Then that mission became a more military style op,and Military trucks were again required,and the brits wanted to unload a few leyland dafs that they no longer needed in europe(Options for change). The Acmats that had been used for gun towing were coming towards the end of their service,and had to be replaced with an intermediate 4x4 truck which was not as large as the MAN,meanwhile smaller 7 tonne 4x2 trucks were also required for operatios at home,as the new thinking at hq was to train the df as a bn,requiring much more transport compared to the past when most units rarely trained above platoon level.

                            So in summary you have a fleet of vehicles with each type having a specific purpose. They are replaced as the need arises,within the confines of the buget. However it is not always possible to replace type for type,and often it is better to make a change.
                            For example,the older Nissan Patrols were built specially for the DF in spain. The newer ones are identical to that you can buy at your local Nissan dealer(should you have 50k lying around).
                            Standardisation is not always a good thing. Imagine if we had nothing but Man 4x4,and MAN realised that there was a design flaw in the braking system and all vehicles had to be recalled immediately? Where would that leave us?
                            A Certain amount of diversification is useful in a military force as small as ours.


                            Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                            • #74
                              there is nothing wrong with topping up the existing force of vehicles with what is the top of the market at the going time but we seem to fail to recognise what top of the market actually is. Do the directorate at S=T or the procurement people have their eyes closed or is it a sin to have a look at comparable forces and see what they are using.
                              Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                              • #75
                                There is a certain advantage to diversification but that only applies to a large force where the logs of a different vehicle can be entertained and the extra cost can be handled.

                                We're a small force with a limited budget which is severely overstretched at the moment so standarisation on a single truck chassis would save loads in the long run.

                                The problem with governments today is that they choose optoions that save money in the short term but end up costing more in the long run.
                                Death before Dishonour.

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