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  • #31
    Originally posted by pym View Post
    Given the increased aft deck space on the P60's & their air search radars - could they be upgraded to carry a HIFR kit, in a TEU for example?
    What air search radar? They'll be fitted for, not with! TEU for helo fuel (permanently carried) & more importantly pumping equipment? Not too sure if it would all fit. Anyone know how much avgas P31 carried?
    Last edited by Dogwatch; 18 February 2013, 00:14. Reason: Spelling

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    • #32
      Surely carrying aviation fuel in a tank in a TEU would not be safe?!

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      • #33
        Originally posted by DeV View Post
        Surely carrying aviation fuel in a tank in a TEU would not be safe?!
        Why would it not be safe?
        Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

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        • #34
          No fire monitors for one thing

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          • #35
            How do you think it's normally carried about Dev?

            Whatever about how much avgas P31 carried, most of it was unusable due to water contamination (caused by condensation).

            S92/61 doesn't need to land to HIFR. The reason all recent OPVs had heledecks as standard was possibly because their navy was permitted to have a history of Naval Ops. A government cost saving initative here means that our naval air op experience was never allowed to grow.
            Keep in mind also that the current FOCNS was a lowly nav officer last time a heli landed on P31's deck. The skillbase is lost, and needs a huge effort to restart (not to mention a suitably equipped ship).

            As for Air Search radar, I thought the last renderings of P61 had it fitted WITH air search radar?


            Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by DeV View Post
              No fire monitors for one thing
              What do you mean by "fire monitor"?

              Is it like the firehose that all ships, not just naval ones, are equipped with?


              Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                How do you think it's normally carried about Dev?

                Whatever about how much avgas P31 carried, most of it was unusable due to water contamination (caused by condensation).

                S92/61 doesn't need to land to HIFR. The reason all recent OPVs had heledecks as standard was possibly because their navy was permitted to have a history of Naval Ops. A government cost saving initative here means that our naval air op experience was never allowed to grow.
                Keep in mind also that the current FOCNS was a lowly nav officer last time a heli landed on P31's deck. The skillbase is lost, and needs a huge effort to restart (not to mention a suitably equipped ship).

                As for Air Search radar, I thought the last renderings of P61 had it fitted WITH air search radar?
                Never seen anything like that but I assume this 2 x TEU unit is land based ?

                As you would know one of the biggest risks at sea is fire.

                The whole point of HIFR is that the help doesn't land, that's what's why there is a IF in HIFR !

                Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                What do you mean by "fire monitor"?

                Is it like the firehose that all ships, not just naval ones, are equipped with?


                See to right of starboard funnel.

                A firehose won't cut it with aviation fuel.

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                • #38
                  Why won't a firehose "cut it"?


                  Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Dogwatch View Post
                    Bloddy scandalous what the IAC got away with allowing the maritime capability die. Sickening.
                    A bit harsh Dogwatch. I think the decision (by who ever it was) not have a helicopter flight deck on the LPVs signalled the end of the role and that it was not needed or wanted.
                    With the two Casa's and the AW139 fleet the capabilities of the Air Corps to support the Naval Service has greatly increased.
                    If one or both the 'navalised' Dauphin's were kept it probably would of been at the expense of one or two AW139s.
                    The AW139s have the range to operate anywhere in the Irish EEZ from land.

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                    • #40
                      First of all, it's not avgas (petrol), it's avtur (kerosene), which is not really much different to what's burning in the ships engine and likewise, will not readily ignite unless provoked. Secondly, water contamination is not that big of an issue as the water can be filtered out during refilling of the tank and afterwards by filtration as the fuel is dispensed. It only becomes an issue if there are very large quantities allowed to get in, which means bad drills on the part of the ship's crew or if it causes biocontamination in the tank itself and even that can be treated. With regard to the Dauphins, certain elements in both the NS and the AC disliked operating with each other/helis on ships/NS giving orders to AC and vice versa,etc,etc and so the project was allowed to die and unmourned death.

                      regards
                      GttC

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                      • #41
                        When hpt comes in he'll know more about the fuel contamination issues on P31. He was a self confessed whirly bird feeder and waver.


                        Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                          Why won't a firehose "cut it"?
                          Not enough water / foam in comparison

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by DeV View Post
                            Not enough water / foam in comparison
                            Poppycock. You are surrounded by water. The same firepumps that pump thru the ships firehose pump thru a fire monitor. There is no shortage of water to pump out. Because of the risk that already exists aboard ship (fuel oil, lube oil, lots of sources of ignition etc) every ship can also make its own foam. Last ship I was on carried 6 40 gallon drums of foam concentrate. I'm sure if we had to carry aircraft on deck we would have had a larger stock.


                            Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Rhodes View Post
                              A bit harsh Dogwatch. I think the decision (by who ever it was) not have a helicopter flight deck on the LPVs signalled the end of the role and that it was not needed or wanted.
                              With the two Casa's and the AW139 fleet the capabilities of the Air Corps to support the Naval Service has greatly increased.
                              If one or both the 'navalised' Dauphin's were kept it probably would of been at the expense of one or two AW139s.
                              The AW139s have the range to operate anywhere in the Irish EEZ from land.
                              Would have the query the ability of AW139 to reach all areas of EEZ. The decision to have LPVs without flight decks was due to the inertia of personnel who didn't want to be at sea. Yes the MPAs provide excellent capability, but 2 is not sufficient. The point I feel that is pertinent is that an OPV that is flight capable with the possibility of catering for an AW139 or S-61/S-92 would enhance the maritime capabilities of the nation, disregarding the previous issues.

                              To GF, helos flew off P31 regularly up until 1998, well after MM had left!

                              & yes the drawings of the new ship are correct in that the mast will take an ASR, but it's not in the final spec that the yard are building (i know it was in the initial).

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                              • #45
                                I think it was mentioned here, some time ago - that anyone joining the Air Corps in recent years, signed a document which included a section about committing to time at sea & deployments. Added to Scorpys posts in the AC section, I think it's fairly safe to say that the old guard & their attitudes are largely a thing of the past.

                                Unfortunately it appears as though a lot of damage was done and certain folks lacked vision. Hopefully in time, that damage can be rectified.

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