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  • #46
    Originally posted by Dogwatch View Post
    Would have the query the ability of AW139 to reach all areas of EEZ. The decision to have LPVs without flight decks was due to the inertia of personnel who didn't want to be at sea. Yes the MPAs provide excellent capability, but 2 is not sufficient. The point I feel that is pertinent is that an OPV that is flight capable with the possibility of catering for an AW139 or S-61/S-92 would enhance the maritime capabilities of the nation, disregarding the previous issues.
    Some technical data of the AW139 from the AgustaWestland website:
    Max range ** 1250 km 675 nm
    Max endurance ** 5 h 56 m
    ** with 1654 kg fuel - no reserve - @ 6000 ft
    http://www.agustawestland.com/product/aw139-0
    I know from personal experience if your detailed to go to sea on board a Naval ship you have very little choice in the matter (not that I didn't want to go).
    There's no doubt that a naval ship with a helicopter flight deck, hanger and navalised helicopter on board has extra capabilities.
    If the LPVs had a helicopter flight deck and hanger it would of been possible a Dauphin could of been sent to Liberia on board Niamh to support the ARW.

    Comment


    • #47
      AW have been proven to be full of shit when it comes to the specs on their aircraft.
      Max range/Max endurance is a notional figure, when an aircraft flies in perfect weather with no excess weight such as seats, strops, stretchers, flir, passengers, crew other than pilot etc.

      Your last line makes no sense. If the LPV needed a helideck, the HPV would have been sent instead.

      Thread split time?


      Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
        Your last line makes no sense. If the LPV needed a helideck, the HPV would have been sent instead.
        A 76mm gun was more important than an unarmed helicopter.

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        • #49
          The ballistic qualities of the 57mm Bofors and the 76mm Oto Melara are comparable. In fact Eithne was supposed to embark on a similar mission but it was pulled at short notice.


          Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

          Comment


          • #50
            as the COs on P31 didn't control the helo crews properly either.
            Capt of Aircraft Vs Capt of Ship.

            there was no command and control issue, the AC were been fcuked about as much as the NS and as a result the Dauphins spent more time carrying ministers than they did at sea.If the requirement had been for five plus two as opposed to five inclusive of two, if the NS had been in possession of its own crew...and if my aunt had balls she 'd be my uncle, it might have worked out a little better.

            To say that the Dauphin operated regularly as an asset to Eithne again is fanciful as most of what was carried out was currency training to keep the concept alive as opposed to actual definable tangible results.

            Look at the current fleet, all class carry petrol in jerry cans on Deck, once you rig it to be dumped ina hurry not an issue. Aoife carried fuel for Virgin Challenger..no issue.TEU of Jet A1...relatively harmless, won't ignite until heated to 21 degrees centigrade and even the it must be pressurized, will ignite at a lower temp if atomized.

            However Jet Fuel is a pain to store, its prone to water contamination in suspension and requires daily sampling and is a waste of space on a ship that rarely operates in the coy of helos.

            Given the PVs carried tons of ammunition from Barry in Wales( albeit for one slight hiccup) again not a major issue.


            Misnomer if anyone thinks the monitors on Eithnes boat deck were there to put out fires should a helo ditch.The instruction was to use them to blast the helo over the side and let the rescue crew do the rest.

            If the LPVs had a helicopter flight deck and hanger it would of been possible a Dauphin could of been sent to Liberia on board Niamh to support the ARW
            No......OPVs are smaller than Eithne, they would have to be considerably larger to accommodate a hanger and flight deck. Eithne was the smallest ship of her type to be able to deploy a helo, given that proved to be too unstable for gurarranteed sustainable operations and given the increase in atlantic swells over the past 10 years, fitting out an even small ship to carry a helo was never an agenda.

            Until the NS are the owners of the assets, there will never be another venture into Naval Aviation.

            Done unto death in the past...
            Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

            Comment


            • #51
              In fact Eithne was supposed to embark on a similar mission but it was pulled at short notice.
              No doubt the 'experten' will question this, but those with an eye for detail will know what to look for to prove it!
              Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                The ballistic qualities of the 57mm Bofors and the 76mm Oto Melara are comparable. In fact Eithne was supposed to embark on a similar mission but it was pulled at short notice.
                Have to disagree, 76mm is a much bigger round & the weapon has a far greater range. 57m is a peashooter in comparison.
                P31 was never considered for the recce mission prior to deployment of the Bn. She was kitted up for the first of what was supposed to be many resupply missions after the Bn deployed. Didn't happen as air charter was the chosen path for resupply (to have an aircraft capable of taking personnel back to ireland on leave!) But yeah, we're diverging rapidly from IAC heritage AC!

                Comment


                • #53
                  I was on Eithne for a patrol in early 1994. Spent ages loitering in the Irish Sea waiting for the helo to get its act together and leave Baldonnel. D244 (edit) arrives with support crew. Glum faces all around. They stayed for two days and one night. Night was calm. On second day the weather deteriorated. Head flyboy said that they were off home. Ships captain ordered him to stick the helo in the hangar and wait it out aboard. Air Corpse dude complained of seasickness amongst his team the previous night. Skipper asked how they were going to get their sea legs if they pissed off anytime the going got a little tough. Flyboy went over his head to baldonnel who pulled the bird. Donners pile aboard with a full allocation of bond each. Big smiles all around as they load up. Chopper can barely take off with the weight of all the duty-free beer, spirits and fags. No helo for remainder of patrol.

                  Just my little anecdote.
                  Last edited by Sluggie; 20 February 2013, 09:59.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    A firehose won't cut it with aviation fuel.

                    Think foam...and foam making 'branches'....think liquid fires...forget about the aviation word.....Jet A 1 is a wide cut diesel..try burn diesel.

                    Avgas on the other hand is petrol...with additives to prevent freezing...and burns and about 400ft per second and will ignite at minus 40 degrees if it hasn't frozen first.....hence the lack of piston engined aircraft on ships..its vapour being the problem....any ways...

                    The aircraft painted to represent an AC chippy got burned recently.....unburnt fuel got ignited by exhaust...something to do with how the carb is set up and set fire to the leading edge of the wing!....could have been worse!
                    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Chopper can barely take off with the weight of all the duty-free beer, spirits and fags.
                      Should have with held the bond until the end of a useful excercise!. Normally bond was opened on 1st night out for Ships crew....

                      If some one had read them ships standing orders around bond they would have realised that you legally only take 40 cigarettes ashore and one of those packets had to be opened...FACT.. I read them one night when I was bored while on QM!
                      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Sluggie View Post
                        I was on Eithne for a patrol in early 1994. Spent ages loitering in the Irish Sea waiting for the helo to get its act together and leave Baldonnel. D252 arrives with support crew. Glum faces all around. The stayed for two days and one night. Night was calm. On second day the weather deteriorated. Head flyboy said that they were off home. Ships captain ordered him to stick the helo in the hangar and wait it out aboard. Air Corpse dude complained of seasickness amongst his team the previous night. Skipper asked how they were going to get their sea legs if they pissed off anytime the going got a little tough. Flyboy went over his head to baldonnel who pulled the bird. Donners pile aboard with a full allocation of bond each. Big smiles all around as they load up. Chopper can barely take off with the weight of all the duty-free beer, spirits and fags. No helo for remainder of patrol.

                        Just my little anecdote.
                        It was either Dh244 or 245. There was no Dh 252.

                        To be fair, it probably isn't the best idea to be landing and taking off from a ships deck with a case of the wobbles. Crew Fatigue would be a huge safety issue, as we were to find out later (R.I.P). But it goes back to the notion that naval aircraft should have naval crews.


                        Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          'Delta Hotel' ( To identify it as a Dauphin Helicopter! )was the prefix used in the call sign used when operating with the ship, you are however correct about the numbers 244 and 245 were Sa365Fis where as 252 is a Casa
                          Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Mea culpa. It was 244.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                              The ballistic qualities of the 57mm Bofors and the 76mm Oto Melara are comparable. In fact Eithne was supposed to embark on a similar mission but it was pulled at short notice.
                              The 76mm gun fires a lot more powerful HE rounds, has a much greater range and is more accurate.
                              Eithne was to collect the ARWs Land Rovers when their mission ended but someone decided to fly them home.

                              Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                              No......OPVs are smaller than Eithne, they would have to be considerably larger to accommodate a hanger and flight deck.
                              The Mauritius Coast Guard ship that the LPV hull design was based on is smaller than the LPVs and has a helicopter flight deck and hanger.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Rhodes View Post



                                The Mauritius Coast Guard ship that the LPV hull design was based on is smaller than the LPVs and has a helicopter flight deck and hanger.
                                Its hangar and deck was large enough to accomodate a single engine Alouette 3. The ship was never used operationally, and is currently rusting away in Port Louis.

                                No offer has yet been submitted for the purchase of the Vigilant patrol of the National Coast Guard.This, after repairs that cost more …


                                Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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