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  1. #1
    C/S flash bang's Avatar
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    have you ever gone "ally"?

    'Allyness' is best described as military fashion sense, i.e. wearing various non-issue items, or modifying issue clothing or equipment in order to look subtly different to one's peers. This can cause chaos when the entire battalion is trying to do the same thing; "Oh my God, he's wearing the same smock as me!" a uk term but have you ever gone "ally"? eg 58 belt with jumper = ally , old school
    :confused: ONCE YOU HAVE THEM BY THE BALLS , THEN YOU CAN WIN THEIR HEARTS AND MINDS ! :

  2. #2
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    Ally or whatever is a term used on Arrse constantly

    why are we so intent on copying them in our terminology

    Bergan- Walt- Ally- Brew

    why cant we say back pact

    spoofer

    Jilty

    cup of tea

    FFS- we are the land of yeats- Kavanagh- and that great writer of fiction

    that came up with intergration and A7
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  3. #3
    C/S flash bang's Avatar
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    hear,hear let me rephrase "has one ever modified one's kit in order to stand out from the crowd"?
    :confused: ONCE YOU HAVE THEM BY THE BALLS , THEN YOU CAN WIN THEIR HEARTS AND MINDS ! :

  4. #4
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    Ally or whatever is a term used on Arrse constantly
    why are we so intent on copying them in our terminology
    Dunno,we use Gucci dont we?

    Bergan-
    Dont have a problem with that one is it is the correct term.(deja vu?)
    Walt-
    Only if you are talking about airsofters and those in the fca with giant hunting knives taped upside down on their webbing.

    Ally is a purely british term which has no place here.Actually it sounds like a gay hangout

    why cant we say back pact
    Is that a chiropractors agreement??? :biggrin
    Last edited by apod; 15th February 2008 at 13:18.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  5. #5
    wanabe womble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post

    those in the fca with giant hunting knives taped upside down on their webbing.
    dam 62nd bn, giving the rest of us a bad name
    Or at least an even worse name
    courage, endurance, mateship and sacrifice

  6. #6
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    Dunno,we use Gucci dont we?
    Gucci denotes either a really good piece of kit

    or a genuine piece as opposed to a Mingi ( fake) piece of kit



    Bergan-

    Dont have a problem with that one is it is the correct term.(deja vu?)
    of course its the correct term

    as long as your serving in the British Army

    us in the Irish Army use the term "Backpack"

    there is nothing romantic or sensational about it but hey lets call it by its proper name


    Walt-

    Only if you are talking about airsofters and those in the fca with giant hunting knives taped upside down on their webbing.


    walt equates to spoofer

    Airsoft are NOT let me make this clear for you NOT spoofers

    they are a bunch who have a hobby that harms no one-

    have a look back at the closed "airsoft thread"

    none of the real Soldiers on here both PDF or RDF have actually criticised the

    airsofters- all the real Soldiers have adopted a policy of live and let live



    the only ones who have slagged them off are those who are so insecure in their

    soldiering abilities that they have to find a person or an organisation

    who they feel they are superior to

    I am afraid APOD that Beret fits you very well.
    Last edited by hedgehog; 15th February 2008 at 18:23.
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  7. #7
    Closed Account Docman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hedgehog View Post
    of course its the correct term

    as long as your serving in the British Army

    us in the Irish Army use the term "Backpack"

    there is nothing romantic or sensational about it but hey lets call it by its proper name
    Actually, if you want to get pedantic - The old PLCE Bergen was officially called a "rucksack" (PLCE Manual) and the Rocket pouches as "Side Pouches"
    The newer IPLCS Backpacks are officially called the Main Pack and the Patrol Pack (TI 13/07 & AAE 04/07). The word rucksack is also used in the Training Instructions for the larger pack.

    Personally refer to it as the Bergen.

  8. #8
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    of course its the correct term

    as long as your serving in the British Army

    us in the Irish Army use the term "Backpack"

    there is nothing romantic or sensational about it but hey lets call it by its proper name
    I think that seeing as they invented it by asking manufacturers in the norwegian town of bergan (from which it takes its name) to make the first ones during ww2 that they got to christen it.But hey,you allready knew this.


    walt equates to spoofer
    Agreed

    Airsoft are NOT let me make this clear for you NOT spoofers
    Anybody who goes around with a plastic gun wearing gucci kit that they have no legitimate use for ,other than to look like something they are not is a spoofer in my book.So if a walt is a spoofer..............

    they are a bunch who have a hobby that harms no one-
    Except their own credibility.Oh and the d.f's public image if they do it in our uniforms.

    none of the real Soldiers on here both PDF or RDF have actually criticised the

    airsofters- all the real Soldiers have adopted a policy of live and let live
    actually a few of us real soldiers did.

    the only ones who have slagged them off are those who are so insecure in their

    soldiering abilities that they have to find a person or an organisation

    who they feel they are superior to
    I am VERY secure in my soldiering ability thank you very much.I dont consider myself superior to anyone .However i am entitled to my opinion that these people are walts.My opinion of them does not make me less of a soldier.My service ,while not being as long as yours, speaks for me.

    I am afraid APOD that Beret fits you very well.
    No ,not really,but hey if you want to get personal i believe your dislike of british military terms is typical of a certain breed of pro republican irish soldier who disparages anything even remotely smacking of "the Brits".I am an irish soldier,i wear the irish uniform,i swore an oath of allegiance to this country.That does not mean that by calling a backpack "bergan" when thats what it was originally called when it was invented makes me less irish. If it or any other item of kit was made in another country and called by another name in that countries parlance would you have a problem with it? I think not. P.l.c.e is p.lc.e isnt it? And "they" invented it and called it that.
    Who's the really insecure one now?:confused:
    Last edited by apod; 16th February 2008 at 17:40. Reason: To correct poor grammer and to satisfy hedgehogs love of pedantry!
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  9. #9
    Lt General Barry's Avatar
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    hedgehog, you might want to have a look at a British and Irish tacaide side by side and see if you can spot the difference. A lot of what the Irish army do is copied piecemeal from the Brits. Our uniforms are almost identitical in design, for instance. Our PLCE is a shite copy of theirs. Drill, tactics, uniforms.....hell, we might as well ask for the Regimental Colours of the Irish Regiments of the British Army (which were returned in 1922) back.

    So you'll forgive me for feeling ally when I take my gucci brew kit out of my bergen. You hat

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by flash bang View Post
    'Allyness' is best described as military fashion sense, i.e. wearing various non-issue items, or modifying issue clothing or equipment in order to look subtly different to one's peers. This can cause chaos when the entire battalion is trying to do the same thing; "Oh my God, he's wearing the same smock as me!" a uk term but have you ever gone "ally"? eg 58 belt with jumper = ally , old school
    So here's the ARRSE definition of "allyness"...http://www.arrse.co.uk/wiki/Ally

    What's your definition of Irish Army "ally"???
    "Gentlemen, you can’t fight in here...this is the War Room!"

  11. #11
    C/S flash bang's Avatar
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    losing one of your ammo pouches and changing it for a utility pouch, have done it for years. comes in handy for tac aide/7.62 belt
    :confused: ONCE YOU HAVE THEM BY THE BALLS , THEN YOU CAN WIN THEIR HEARTS AND MINDS ! :

  12. #12
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    Personally refer to it as the Bergen.
    You can call it a turkeys handerchief for all I care-

    I just dread / hate despise ther term bergan because someone seen it on a telly show

    featuring the Brits (note the capital letter) and think its a cool term to use because

    the Brits (note the capital) use it-


    hedgehog, you might want to have a look at a British and Irish tacaide side by side and see if you can spot the difference.
    If I can spot 5 differences will you donate 50 Euro to the board

    lets make it 10 differences


    Actually, if you want to get pedantic - .
    Man I love getting Pedantic- its my hobby.


    Apod have a look at your post and if your happy it with- I will then comment on it.
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  13. #13
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    You can call it a turkeys handerchief for all I care-

    I just dread / hate despise ther term bergan because someone seen it on a telly show

    featuring the Brits (note the capital letter) and think its a cool term to use because

    the Brits (note the capital) use it-
    And you are telling me how to write?Maybe people use the term because that is the term they like to use.I use bergan you use backpack.Some call it a rucksack.However you are ramming it down our throats that bergan is an incorrect term because it's used by the british army.Give me a break.Nearly every item of kit we have is influenced by the Brits.We use their sleeping system,we use their webbing(for the moment),our clothing system is influenced by theirs.Whats the problem?

    Man I love getting Pedantic- its my hobby.
    each to there own.


    Apod have a look at your post and if your happy it with- I will then comment on it
    Thank you sir ,my homework is ready.Who is acting superior now?Get off the high horse that you accuse me of sitting on.

    P.s: To all the other board members here i apologise for my ranting on.However i will not accept a fellow soldier casting dispersions on my soldiering ability because i happen to think that airsofters are walts.After sixteen years in uniform,11 of those as line Infantry ,not in office jobs,i think i have earned the right to cry foul when someone gets personal over a difference of opinion.:wink:
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  14. #14
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    think that seeing as they invented it by asking manufacturers in the norwegian town of bergan (from which it takes its name) to make the first ones during ww2 that they got to christen it.But hey,you allready knew this.
    The Brits (capitals - my boy , capitals) and the Norweigans invented back packs

    in 1942- wow and I was thinking that particular mode of lugging stuff was around

    long before that- if your wrong in this small point- what about your big points-

    Son- check your facts-


    they are a bunch who have a hobby that harms no one-

    Except their own credibility.Oh and the d.f's public image if they do it in our uniforms.
    what airsofter has affected the credibility of the DF- any of the recent incidents
    have been PDF and RDF- I dont think that they have impacted on our creibiliity
    but evidently you with your massive amount of service and not in an office job
    (why do you need to justify yourself in that regard- whats wrong with clerks
    they also serve who sit and wait etc )


    I am VERY secure in my soldiering ability thank you very much.I dont consider myself superior to anyone .However i am entitled to my opinion that these people are walts.My opinion of them does not make me less of a soldier.My service ,while not being as long as yours, speaks for me.
    your not really secure in yourself as a Soldier or as a person

    thats why you are leading the mealy mouth attack on air softers- you need to have someone to look down on to validate yourself

    but we are in the position - that either you know this is so and wont say anything
    or you dont even realise it- but when you get older and more service in the Defence Forces
    you will realise it


    No ,not really,but hey if you want to get personal i believe your dislike of british military terms is typical of a certain breed of pro republican irish soldier who disparages anything even remotely smacking of "the Brits"
    This here is a ridicolous rant- if you even went to the bother of looking up my Anti SF posts you would have realised how silly this portion was
    it came from nowhere and had nothing to do with what was other wise a mature debate
    you actually lost your argument here.

    I did offer you the chance to review your post - I was extremely fair to you but you said

    Apod have a look at your post and if your happy it with- I will then comment on it

    Thank you sir ,my homework is ready.Who is acting superior now?Get off the high horse that you accuse me of sitting on.
    some homework young man.


    After sixteen years in uniform,11 of those as line Infantry ,not in office jobs,i think i have earned the right to cry foul when someone gets personal over a difference of opinion.
    after 24 and a bit service in Uniform and ALL of them in a line Infantry Unit so on and so on

    but maybe when your a bit more senior you will realise my point

    regards


    HH

    Oh in case your in doubt I specifically left you out of the real Soldier category because
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  15. #15
    Captain Truck Driver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flash bang View Post
    losing one of your ammo pouches and changing it for a utility pouch, have done it for years. comes in handy for tac aide/7.62 belt
    If you look at the DF PLCE video, this is how the PLCE was originally worn in the DF
    for Fighting Order.... think it was the RH hand pouch that was a utility pouch, or was
    it a gas mask pouch?

    Of course, the modes of wear have changed slightly since then
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

  16. #16
    C/S flash bang's Avatar
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    eek is it safe to post? talk about opening a tin of worms.......so anybody else MODIFY?
    :confused: ONCE YOU HAVE THEM BY THE BALLS , THEN YOU CAN WIN THEIR HEARTS AND MINDS ! :

  17. #17
    Closed Account Docman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hedgehog View Post
    You can call it a turkeys handerchief for all I care-

    I just dread / hate despise ther term bergan because someone seen it on a telly show

    featuring the Brits (note the capital letter) and think its a cool term to use because

    the Brits (note the capital) use it-
    I use it because that is what everyone else I know refers to it as. You say back pack and people say which one? In the RDF, backpack can mean a lot of things as Issue PLCE is difficult to get. Many people buy their own backpacks rather than use the '58 patt backpack. I use the word Bergen to refer to the Issue Backpack and to differentiate it from other backpacks. That is the way it has always been in my old (and new) unit.

    You can't use the word Backpack in the RDF because are you talking about '58 Patt backpack, privately purchased backpack, PLCE backpack, Patrol pack. etc. etc.

  18. #18
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Same could be said for bergen.... Is it the daysack? Some people called a packed 58 backpack a bergen.

    Why not just call it a Rucksack?


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  19. #19
    Colonel johnny no stars's Avatar
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    why not go the whole hog and refuse to speak in english... we are "copying" all our words from them after all, maybe we should just use all our own words...
    Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
    Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
    Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
    Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

  20. #20
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny no stars View Post
    why not go the whole hog and refuse to speak in english... we are "copying" all our words from them after all, maybe we should just use all our own words...
    We do down here... They stole their words from other languages too...


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  21. #21
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny no stars View Post
    maybe we should just use all our own words...


    Exactly what I am saying

    I actually knew JNS that you would be one of teh clever ones

    to figure this out

    well done
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  22. #22
    Closed Account Docman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kermit View Post
    The ****?!? Who in the name of god is still using 58 pattern? There's plenty of PLCE out there!
    Most units are using it. The pool system doesn't work. You look for it and someone else has call/priority on it, the Q is too busy, someone is sick etc. etc. You can usually, with pressure, get 15/20 sets for something (of which you will only get 10 usuable sets out of it). You don't get it for day to day stuff - security, range practices, training etc.
    In the absense of PLCE you must use '58 patt.

  23. #23
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    More 58 Pattern should be lost or damaged during training. Its the only way you'll see the back of it. We would still be using piss pots if many on my Pots course had not been told to dump them in the skip on bere island.
    They were quickly replaced with the "newer" Izzy. I can assure you an ordnance check of unit stores will only count sets of webbing. They won't really care if its 37, 58 or PLCE.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  24. #24
    Lt General Barry's Avatar
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    I have recently, purely on the basis of this thread, and specifically hedgehog's response, started using the phrase "ally" to refer to a warry military look. Ha.

  25. #25
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    I have recently, purely on the basis of this thread, and specifically hedgehog's response, started using the phrase "ally" to refer to a warry military look. Ha.
    so your using the term because it means something to you

    and not solely because you seen it on a British Army (God Bless them) web site and were

    to dim to come up with your own term

    thats exactly what I am saying- use what ever term you want but dont JUST use it

    because those truppeny bits use it,

    Baz I knew you were one of the clever ones
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

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