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  • What a load of crap.It was specifically stated in the exercise instruction order "Safety "annex that only operational boots were to be worn.
    As the exercise was 72 hours duration all the members of my units RDF exercise platoon who had not already been issued a pair were issued them.Your CoC should have insisted upon it.If neccessary your Pln comd should have reported the issue to the BN Comd.
    "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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    • general question:

      how fussy is your CoC about what boots you wear on exercise?

      does it matter if they don't look like issue boots, does it matter whether they are black or brown - or even tan/sand?

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      • You are entitled to "Operational Boots" (as opposed to "Light Operational Boots") for tactical ex's in excess of 72 hours. The brand isn't mentioned.

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        • Originally posted by apod View Post
          What a load of crap.It was specifically stated in the exercise instruction order "Safety "annex that only operational boots were to be worn.
          As the exercise was 72 hours duration all the members of my units RDF exercise platoon who had not already been issued a pair were issued them.Your CoC should have insisted upon it.If neccessary your Pln comd should have reported the issue to the BN Comd.
          Not all of us did, but that was down to there not being enough boots in certain sizes in stores.

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          • Originally posted by morpheus View Post
            came down from senior staff members in PDF BN, we were also fed the usual poo that this was a 48hr ex not a 72hr ex, after 3 other stories of drivers being turned away from main stores empty handed looking for kit requested on clothing forms that should have been shipped back to our home HQ barracks. sick of it at this stage.
            Morpheus - there is a general problem in getting kit at the moment. Some of the lads that serve with me haven't been able to get proper sized boots for months, and in may cases when stores do send them out to our unit, they issue the wrong size with a "sure its close enough" attitude.

            This will only get worse if logs get their wish and manage to consolidate to a single clothing store as is their longterm plan.

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            • Originally posted by smegers View Post
              Not all of us did, but that was down to there not being enough boots in certain sizes in stores.
              Who are you telling

              Originally posted by northie View Post
              Morpheus - there is a general problem in getting kit at the moment. Some of the lads that serve with me haven't been able to get proper sized boots for months, and in may cases when stores do send them out to our unit, they issue the wrong size with a "sure its close enough" attitude.

              This will only get worse if logs get their wish and manage to consolidate to a single clothing store as is their longterm plan.
              Not just a 1 Bde problem so.The problem is the boot contact has not even gone to tender as they are making their mind up how to proceed.The top guy wants a single boot solution as a cost cutting measure.Problem is a single boot cannot fulfill all roles properly
              As a result their are NO size 11's in the DF and 8's,9's and 10's are proving scarcer also.
              If we go to a single issue stores in the DFTC it will actually improve the situation as each brigade stores is only allowed hold two months worth of stock at the moment.They are doing loaves and fishes trying to keep everyone kitted out.But if you need two shirts you are getting one.If we get our kit direct from source then you will either get it or it will be "dues out".No being fobbed off with older type shirts or a 91/2 boot instead of a 9 because Bde stores are trying to get rid of them.Remember the Bde stores can only demand the newer items when all the old stuff is issued.

              NB: DONT DONT DONT accept an incorrect size.They are a bitch to exchange and it nullifys your chance of an issue down the line.Once the demand is signed the demand remains open until you are issued the item you demanded.If everything else on the 245B is issued except that item the demand for it remains open and it has to be re-demanded over and over again until it is issued.Also make sure you are aware of the new scale of issue as some items are no longer overseas only and other have gone up in scale EG the Norgie
              "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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              • Thanks all

                yes we were fobbed off

                members were wearing black boots but some folks wore brown (Lowas in both cases), and this was both PDF and RDF i even saw a pair of issue desert tan boots.

                I for one hike outside of army service so will just replace my existing combat boots (magnums from 7 years ago - which are in bits now) with a decent pair of Lowas, black or brown, or meindles army pros (which I had before, but are a bit pricey). Im fed up holding out at the risk of self immolation and personal discomfort.
                "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
                "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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                • Originally posted by apod View Post
                  What a load of crap.It was specifically stated in the exercise instruction order "Safety "annex that only operational boots were to be worn.
                  As the exercise was 72 hours duration all the members of my units RDF exercise platoon who had not already been issued a pair were issued them.Your CoC should have insisted upon it.If neccessary your Pln comd should have reported the issue to the BN Comd.
                  The bods in our unit were told something along the lines of "You can have all the ops boots you want as long as you take a size 12"
                  "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by morpheus View Post
                    we (RDF infantry unit) were told that we couldnt get tactical HAIX issue boots for the recent 72 hr ex in the FOB in the glen, that the barrack boot magnum is a "light operational" boot and would be acceptable instead.

                    we were expected to carry out a small movement by foot from the admin legeur to the FOB carrying everything, over lobawn, into bog holes, through mud, by cavanaghs gap, down scree slope at black scar and into stranahealy... in light ops boots. My bergin and battlevest had a combined weight of 40+kg for this little soiree over a mountain in complete darkness. One guy was rescued because the GPMG wedged in the mouth of the sinkhole that opened up under him. his boots never touched the ground and only his arm wrapped around it kept him from disappearing completely.

                    Absolute money pinching ****ery.
                    Apparently the unit put in for everything, gloves, boots, dri-flos, the works. What we got was a bundle of second hand uniforms of some of our PDF cadre staff and a letter from up top (Bde level I think) stating that lightweight operational boots are suitable for the Ex mentioned. Pool issue camelbaks with no cleaning kits was something else that pissed me off, but that's another thread.

                    Being someone who fell through one of those sinkholes up to my shoulders, I would probably have had a sense of humour failure if I was wearing my issue boots which have the soles hanging off, and have yet to be replaced despite me submitting a req months ago. Thankfully I was wearing my private purchase Lowas. We had guys who had the soles worn down to nothing, no tread at all, others had the soles flapping off their boots, another literally had his boots held together with electrical tape! And yet, new boots still weren't forthcoming. Disgraceful, particularly as one guy whose boots were falling apart wasn't even being paid for half the ex as he'd exhausted his 28 man day cap, such is his dedication to his service.

                    Chatting to one guy after LFTT who was fresh back from Syria, he was saying that even the lads being deployed weren't being given a full compliment of new kit as was previous practice. Instead they're just seeing what you're diffy and issuing what you're missing. He was making out that everything was in short supply, from boots to MOWAG tyres. Times are tight everywhere. Eventually this insufficient supply of essential equipment will cost more than just money.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by SwiftandSure View Post
                      Apparently the unit put in for everything, gloves, boots, dri-flos, the works. What we got was a bundle of second hand uniforms of some of our PDF cadre staff and a letter from up top (Bde level I think) stating that lightweight operational boots are suitable for the Ex mentioned. Pool issue camelbaks with no cleaning kits was something else that pissed me off, but that's another thread.

                      Being someone who fell through one of those sinkholes up to my shoulders, I would probably have had a sense of humour failure if I was wearing my issue boots which have the soles hanging off, and have yet to be replaced despite me submitting a req months ago. Thankfully I was wearing my private purchase Lowas. We had guys who had the soles worn down to nothing, no tread at all, others had the soles flapping off their boots, another literally had his boots held together with electrical tape! And yet, new boots still weren't forthcoming. Disgraceful, particularly as one guy whose boots were falling apart wasn't even being paid for half the ex as he'd exhausted his 28 man day cap, such is his dedication to his service.

                      Chatting to one guy after LFTT who was fresh back from Syria, he was saying that even the lads being deployed weren't being given a full compliment of new kit as was previous practice. Instead they're just seeing what you're diffy and issuing what you're missing. He was making out that everything was in short supply, from boots to MOWAG tyres. Times are tight everywhere. Eventually this insufficient supply of essential equipment will cost more than just money.
                      The situation that you describe exists in the PDF as well - i've seen numerous demands for kit signed, sent away to Brigade stores, only for no kit to be forthcoming.

                      I don't wear the issue operation boot, I wear my private purchase boots as that what I'm comfortable in. The issue ones are used for gardening, and the operation of power tools etc. Who ever thought of doling out a composite toecap boot for operations? The self proclaimed messiahs of J4, thats who.
                      Last edited by northie; 7 August 2014, 00:15.

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                      • climbing mountiains in the dark in glorified trainers with the soles hanging off?

                        you blokes need to get better at handling the media....

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                        • Originally posted by ropebag View Post
                          climbing mountiains in the dark in glorified trainers with the soles hanging off?

                          you blokes need to get better at handling the media....
                          If we went to the media, Joe Public wouldn't care and we would just be told not to climb mountains in the first place.

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                          • The problems are down to the head of procurement,the new(ish) clothing issue system of "Bde stores" and the fact that the boot tender is in limbo.
                            As for the safe toe boots at least they have realised they were a bad idea and are trying to rectify the situation albeit too late for some.
                            "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by SwiftandSure View Post
                              If we went to the media, Joe Public wouldn't care and we would just be told not to climb mountains in the first place.
                              Mick, IMO's resident hack, thinks differently - and it doesn't matter if the public cares or not, its whether something has the potential to embarrases the government, and in this case soldiers walking around with the soles hanging off the boots - while Enda Kenny was acting as minister for defence - has the potential to make him look silly.

                              how many gags do you think FF could get out of that one?

                              realism is fine, but defeatism is not - and anyway, even if the supply situation was not radically improved, do you not think the government should be taken to task for failing to equip its people?
                              Last edited by ropebag; 7 August 2014, 01:23.

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                              • I fully agree Ropebag. If only we had a representative body that could effectively deal with these issues....

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