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And where do you work, oh enlightened one? Or is that what you wanted us to understand....
No, I didn't mean that.. Sorry. What i meant was, if I was to travel to the Curragh every day from where I live it would cost me approx 60+ euros per week on fuel costs alone.
What I was trying to Convey(not to well I might add:redface was, 154 Euros doesn't really go that far in todays world.
As I understand it, most volunteer for the Wing and understand they will be based in the Curragh area.
As they all volunteer to join anyway, they must understand that there will be costs, costs that will not be re-immbersed by the State.
I always believed when the unit was being set up there should have been planning for a "Troop" / "Section" in each of the then Command H.Q. areas, no doubt that would have met with the response of being too costly, and detrimental to training purposes.
But their was already in most Command areas personnel who had already passed the "Ranger" Courses and wearing the Tab.
But possibly would have had a lesser impact of the family life, with regards the members, original home locations.
It really is a single young mans part of the df.. the idea of making money in it does not and probably will not come onboard by the government.... what is the rangers motto...too much time to think is causing this to happen and if a person is not happy he should consider leaving it as it will lower moral the officers only stay for a fixed term as well ??? the average overtime pay for 12 hours work in civie street is 200 euros.. so a term in the arw should be a fixed term to improve a soldiers knowledge and let him pass it on to his home unit on return.
€154 a week is f*ck all for the skill level of these guys. They are at the very top of their profession and should be paid as such. If a TD is worth €100k + or whateve l couldnt even guess what an Irish SF soldier in Chad might be worth for the job that is being done and he training it has taken to get to the position they are in.
For example, I'd say those train drivers (who also work in the public service) who went on strike at the drop of a hat there last week with some bullshit crib get paid a lot more than ARW people for the tough job of sitting driving a train. Plus they can throw the toys out of the pram whenever they want and good luck in the cup to people relying on their service to travel etc. I think train drivers are on over €40k a year, is that right?
Sure do, there should parity of pay and allowances for Irish Rangers against International Sandards, such as the US SF and UK SF communities...
USSF receive 350 dollars per month special duty pay with an additional 150 a month airborne pay. There are other allowances for language , free fall and SCUBA skills but the majority don't receive these.
154 euro a month is about double in spending power to what most USSF receive.
What USSF have that is better with regard to benefits is the distinct career path that is the US Special Forces Command. Every member of an A-team is at least an E-6(SSG) with the majority in fact being an E-7(SFC). Once a prospective member passes the Q course he is given a new military occupationally specialty in the 18 series and fast tracked (if not already a SSG or SFC)to the SSG promotion board. Not only is promotion to senior NCO ranks rapid but there is also a warrant officer on every team and prospective warrant officers are found exclusively from within the USSFC ranks.
Off that topic, there are any number of reasons that those fellas were surprised by the militia. All the planning in the world wont help you if the intel you planned with does not match the real truth of whats on the ground.
Presumably higher was not aware of a band of 300 or so heavily armed ne'er do wells were in the village. That said, the Rangers emplacing a robust support by fire element (you can be sure the militia knew of it) had more to do with the amicable ending to the story than luck or the pleasant disposition of the indigs.
When I breeze into that city, people gonna stoop and bow.
All them women gonna make me, teach 'em what they don't know how
Yes I agree with Expat, Maybe having a large amount of firepower outside tipped the balance, ..
As regards pay and allowances it is felt that the complaints about money may also be indicative of other issues: Morale, bureaucracy, lack of action, red tape, frustration over god knows what. It must be difficult to have to train continuously but have little opportunity to put any of it into action and peace keeping/ even enforcing may be even more frustrating. Similarly in other units in the army train , train and do cash escorts or maybe become a blue helmeted target .. Maybe even the ARW people themselves have not entirely figured it out .
People join armies, SF, Foreign legion , nursing, teaching etc for reasons other than the money. Career paths , responsibility, wanting to be the best ,to do good, to kill people adventure etc
Yes, they should be paid for what they do and joining the arw should assist their military career, If money is the reason then people have to weigh up the pros and cons ,, is it worth going to Iraq , being away from family, maybe ( slight chance) of getting killed ,no career path etc, If it is then do the sums and go or stay and using the US or Brits as a comparison may not be entirely honest as they are in action in Iraq , Afghanistan etc , many are leaving and joining pvt contractors but many are staying on as well.
The DF then have to take this on board and should look at the other issues as well as money do their sums if they want to retain an effective SF .Its all a cost benefit analysis that we as individuals do everyday
Some interesting points of view there, but facts are facts, the Irish Army Rangers, are at the top of their profession, the perks and pay should reflect this based on interational standards in the western world, not how much a TD or anybody else who has nothing to do with soldiering gets paid...
Those guys have my utter respect, and it would be nice for the Govt to have the same opinion and get a project going on ARW allowances and expenses, how it fairs compared against the SAS, US SOCOM Troops, etc, etc... The study would obvoiusly take standards and costs of living into account, etc... They are a small unit with a big res;ponsibility and woe on any regular soldier who moans about them getting special treatment...
"There is nothing braver then the heart of a volunteer" Lt. Col. Dolittle, USAC, 1941.
The rangers would want to get it together. They don't want themsleves identified in the press..all hush hush, sneeky beeky stuff, yet are willing to write to the papers when they're not happy. At the same time they play on the mystique that surrounds them but want to break the silence when it suits them. Sorry, they volunteer for all this stuff. Selection is damn tough, as it should be. Skills cse is no easy time either, and its written down and told to everyone that they have to live within an hour of base. So, through the system make your case (as they have). But when the system respects your anonymity, you have to keep your side of the bargain.
The incident...meeting rebels in Chad. Me thinks they did damn well. They were on a patrol, outnumbered and obviously surprised. So they talked to these guys. No big deal. This is an impartial peacekeeping force. EUFOR has meet Chadian army forces...so they should meet the rebels. We met HB in Lebanon all the time. Just didn't feel the need to leak it to the press.
Special forces should get on with their job and keep thier mouths shut. On all fronts.
The rangers would want to get it together. They don't want themsleves identified in the press..all hush hush, sneeky beeky stuff, yet are willing to write to the papers when they're not happy. At the same time they play on the mystique that surrounds them but want to break the silence when it suits them. Sorry, they volunteer for all this stuff. Selection is damn tough, as it should be. Skills cse is no easy time either, and its written down and told to everyone that they have to live within an hour of base. So, through the system make your case (as they have). But when the system respects your anonymity, you have to keep your side of the bargain.
The incident...meeting rebels in Chad. Me thinks they did damn well. They were on a patrol, outnumbered and obviously surprised. So they talked to these guys. No big deal. This is an impartial peacekeeping force. EUFOR has meet Chadian army forces...so they should meet the rebels. We met HB in Lebanon all the time. Just didn't feel the need to leak it to the press.
Special forces should get on with their job and keep thier mouths shut. On all fronts.
I understand your point of view, but you need to set it in context to the likes of similiar forces like the British SAS/SBS or US SOCOM (Includes "Delta" "FCCJs" and "Seals" for example) whom have pay and conditions that are suitable after they upgraded them from near enough to Regular Army pay and allowances. The Rangers do the job and should be paid for it.. the fact that one guy writes to the press is no right I agree, but its refective of somebody somewhere not listening.. As for them "keeping their mouth shut".. I think you will find if a British SAS man was here on this board, he would not be shy about telling you he is SAS. I think the guys in the ARW have done an outstanding job on staying below the radar, and surfacing for pay and conditions given the publican of the mission in point through normal channels is unfortunate but understandable...
I manage people on a daily basis in my job, and I make sure their pay and conditions are comparable to similiar jobs elsewhere... its good management practice to do so, especially when you have "key personnel" to the organisation under your management authority/mandate.
"There is nothing braver then the heart of a volunteer" Lt. Col. Dolittle, USAC, 1941.
I saw a report recently that suggested the letter is a fake, not written by a member of the ARW at all. DF authorities have narrowed down the source to a couple of individuals. None of whom ever served in the ARW.
Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.
I cant see a member of the wing moaning about anything, especially not to the press.
From wat i've seen of them, their absolute professionals who understand ALL the good and bad points that come with soldiering and Im sure they have worse things to moan about than pay.
Most probably some disgruntled wannabe or someone that couldnt make the grade.
As for all the armchair generals that commented on the the story about the rebels, YOU WERENT THERE!!!! so you cant comment!!!!!
Woo Hoo, finally moderated!!!!! In that select band of people who speak their mind instead of being sheep!
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was, 154 Euros doesn't really go that far in todays world.
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