Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Naval air ops no more?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • would a EC135 be ideal for sea operations if one was made available?
    Its got two engines alright,
    Is its stability suitable for sea operations?
    Is its radar akin(as powerful) the Casa?(doubt it).
    Apart from the obvious benefits of having it on board what else could it be modified to do?
    E.g Gun Ship??

    Comment


    • The specifics of the AB139 are available not far away, in the Air Corps section.

      The EC135 has not yet been rated for naval operations. Its radar is a weather radar, not a search radar. What it would be capable of would just as easily be carried out by a UAV.

      Also, Skid type underciarrage makes aircraft handling on deck more difficult.


      Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

      Comment


      • I guess we'll get a good indication if Naval air ops will ever happen again, when we see what way they go with the B/G ship, it either will have a helipad or not...just my civi opinion of course.
        Dr. Venture: Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?

        Dr. Venture: Dean, you smell like a whore

        Comment


        • It will have a helipad. Its role would dictate it. Thats a given. Even if the helideck is used as a parking space for mowags or has tie down points for TEUs, it will have a deck capable of taking a helicopter of significant size.


          Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
            It will have a helipad. Its role would dictate it. Thats a given. Even if the helideck is used as a parking space for mowags or has tie down points for TEUs, it will have a deck capable of taking a helicopter of significant size.
            That would be a good start, aren't the AW-139's pretty much maritime ready as is?, Malaysia are going to operate their's on ships....I can't see too much of a problem operating our's off of a decent sized ship., or am I missing something?
            Dr. Venture: Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?

            Dr. Venture: Dean, you smell like a whore

            Comment


            • You need to upgrade the landing gear. Possibly include some sort of harpoon system to anchor to the deck, unless you just want to operate the aircraft while the ship is at anchor in calm water.

              Murph would know more, he's been there and done that.


              I didnt know the Malaysians were users of the AB139. Source on this?


              Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

              Comment


              • I don't think there would be any problem tying them to a deck and when the ship reached its destination, dropping anchor and allowing them to fly off to a more permanent land base.

                Basically, the AW-139 wouldn't be operating off the ship if it was just on a coastal patrol. The ship would be used as a means of transport to a deployment area.

                I think it would be prudent for the new vessel to be able to take Merlin sized helicopters, because even if the Air Corps never operate them the ship may be deployed to zones where UN partners would.

                Comment


                • Absolutely! Retaining the capacity to operate, even if the ability is not exercised, is a vital factor in all operations, both at home and overseas. Even Eithne had the capability to VERTREP larger helis, without them being required to land.


                  Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                  Comment


                  • the harpoon was used in all situations while on the move or even at anchor outside harbours as even at anchor or in costal waters the ship can pitch or roll....its these limits that dictated the landing of helos.I know there is a picture of 248 landing but this was done in the shannon estuary I thing in flat calm conditions and at anchor.

                    We did do HIFR with a RAF seaking many years ago to test the ability to be able to fuel oversize helos but the fact that fuel contamination was such an issue with the ship it would take a lot of testing to ensure that such an ability still remained...any vessel can do a vert rep especially if it has a clear after deck or focsle but there doesen't seem to be the imoutus any more to do so.In reality while on day to day operations most replenishment has been by traditional transfeer means( jackstay) . The current AC fleet of helos are commited to Army support thingys so I don't think the naval aspect is being considered too much until we buy a navalised version of the 139..and thats not on the books anytime soon.

                    In fairness I think you have to see a helo landing on a ship to witnsee the possible complications and know both the limitations of the ship and the helo to really appreciate whats in volved ..especially with some thing of Eithnes size in often not so flat calm conditions. Some here have what ever division they were in and know its not just a simple as putting peg'A' into slot 'B'
                    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                    Comment


                    • bargain?

                      Kickstart the Naval Service Air Wing with a deal like this: the Uruguayan Navy is buying 6 MBB Bo-105s secondhand from Germany, at a cost of €1.8 million. (The Bo-105 is the predecessor to the EC-135.)

                      Comment


                      • Secondhand=obsolete and well used. The BO 105 was old when the Dauphin was introduced.

                        UAVs are the future, unless you need to transfer crew or cargo. Then a Land based heli is more than adequate.


                        Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                        Comment


                        • helicopters and UAVs

                          Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                          Secondhand=obsolete and well used. The BO 105 was old when the Dauphin was introduced.

                          UAVs are the future, unless you need to transfer crew or cargo. Then a Land based heli is more than adequate.
                          I agree that UAVs will become widely used on ships, but I think they are more likely to supplement rather than replace helicopters, at least for the foreseeable future. Most major naval ship programmes still include helicopters in the plans.

                          The roles of shipborne helicopters have changed since the end of the Cold War, with less emphasis on ASW work, which used to be their main task. But a helicopter is a still very useful and flexible element of a ship's equipment.
                          Last edited by thebig C; 30 April 2007, 09:15.

                          Comment


                          • How about something like the AS555 SN its twin engined it can be equipped with 360° digital colour radar for search and surveillance, a search and rescue winch and a variety of weapons system if needed. No idea on cost can anyone help? the only draw back i reckon are the skids. Its in service with Brazil, Columbia and Argentina. What do you think. http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/as555_fennec/

                            Comment


                            • Future naval air corp role?

                              Given that the territorial waters have been increased do you think there will be more of a possibility of future naval vessels being equiped with AB139's to give the navy greater coverage?

                              Comment


                              • Fennecs for Naval Service

                                Originally posted by Piranha View Post
                                How about something like the AS555 SN its twin engined it can be equipped with 360° digital colour radar for search and surveillance, a search and rescue winch and a variety of weapons system if needed. No idea on cost can anyone help? the only draw back i reckon are the skids. Its in service with Brazil, Columbia and Argentina. What do you think. http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/as555_fennec/

                                I agree, this would be the way to go. It's the smallest, lightest shipboard helicopter on the market. The army Fennec costs over €2 million, but expect the naval version to cost more, especially if you add the search radar. Probably still work out at less than half the price of an Air Corps EC-135, or you could buy four naval Fennecs for the price of one AW139. (The unarmed MN version more suitable for the Naval Service than the SN?)

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X