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Naval air ops no more?

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  • #16
    Point we dont have an Air FORCE we have an Air CORPS!!For one the word FORCE impies there are Danger and able to fight - the IAC Corps isnt!!I say concentrate on the Air Corp we have without getting another one
    Assurance is credable and to be credable you'v got to show you can do it!!

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    • #17
      Sadly the idiots got to see this first. The idea of dedicated naval pilots with naval aircraft has been favoured for some time in Haulbowline,considering the disaster that was Dauphin ops(and the old joke was that it was the navy,not the air corpse who went home for their tea).The Pilots had a huge difficulty going to sea,and combined with an unsuitable aircraft,the experiment was a failure. The Casa aircraft operate exclusively with the naval service,pointing them in the direction of suspect vessels,and indeed in some cases securing a prosecution with photographic evidence.
      It has long been my,and other peoples opinion that we may as well give up on the idea of the air corpse,and instead have an Army air Corps(as it was originally) and move maritime squadron to the Naval service. The Aircraft only see the don when they are being fixed in any case.

      What muppet says we dont need larger ships? Why? Would you prefer to patrol the north atlantic in winter in a 21foot rib? It can be arranged...
      When writing off the opinions of somebody else,it often helps to have a clue what you are talking about first.
      The Navy need more ships,capable of spending longer times at sea,shipboard aircraft are optional,but if done properly,could be a valuable asset. Maritime squadron have done excellent work with the 2 Casa,considering one of them is abused occasionally for ministerial jollies. More of this type are needed. The usefulness of the type is apparent in the decision of the USCG,no small fish when it comes to Maritime patrol,who have selected the Casa for part of its Deepwater programme,following a very successful demo of the irish aircraft in the US.

      The Naval service finds new roles being added to its portfolio regularly....meanwhile the Air Corpse looses roles....


      Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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      • #18
        North Atlantic weather bites at the best of times and you wouldn't catch me in anything smaller than the QM2 there.From what I've read of current Naval operations the Irish Navy does get around the world frequently.I understand the 12 ships navy that some are calling for here but does a smaller number of larger ships and a Naval Air Service with CASAs and shipboard helicopters equal a more efficient navy or a larger number of smaller ships coupled with the 2 planes of IAC Martime Squadron and 5 Coast Guard helicopters equal a more effective and efficient service capable of performing the Irish Navies current roles.Obviously with the way defense is funded in Ireland the navy could only sway to one side or the other if it EVER got money to replace some of the older ships.Aircraft and big ships may also be a way to increase recruitment that some board members indicate to be low as it raises the profile of the navy.
        Si vis pacem para bellum

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        • #19
          The Navy dont need an Air Wing this country needs an injection of funds to build up the Aer Corps.

          The Helo ops that occour today with the NS are fraught with danger as the equipment we have for firefighters such as the silver suits for helo ditching on the afterdeck are a ****ing joke.

          Not one of the things reach my ankles anymore if i had to use them for real i'd barbecue my feet.

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          • #20
            ...when was the last time a dauphin actaully landed on the tennis court on the back of the Eithne.....Did you not get to wear the lovely big blue suede boots that went with the chicken suit.

            It was only when I attended the Civil Aviation Authority Fire school in Teeside did Irealise the futility behind the suits.

            The civil authoritie s have outlawed there use as they are more dangerous than good. The concept of snatch rescue is gone. Firefighting is the job. If the helo is on the deck long enough to warrant wearing the suit..the crew are already dead.......and now the ship is at risk .....remember where the heli fuel tank on the eithne is!
            Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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            • #21
              I wore a silver suit once,and wondered how long the plastic helmet would last in the intense heat....or the rubber soled boots for that matter....
              I'll take my chances with Nomex thank you.


              Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

              Comment


              • #22
                Unlike the Royal Navy the NS doesn't seem to have a problem with non-cooperation with the Air Corps. However if the NS Felt strong enough on this then I think the New Zealand way of doing things is best.

                The RNZN have only 3 Helicopters when at sea sea they are operated by the RNZN for the RNZN, when ashore they go into the RNZAF Support system. It makes alot of sense really as it ensures the Light-Blues dont have to go in one of those Nasty Horrible Ship-things and esures continuity and improvement of docterine concerning Naval Aviation (The RNZN also hold the budget for these aircraft)

                .

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                • #23
                  Sounds unecessarily complicated.If its Navy funding and Navy pilots why put it under AF control just because the helicopter is in port.Just sounds like an unnecessary paper trail.
                  Si vis pacem para bellum

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                  • #24
                    Non Cooperation.....down right hostility would be more likely.

                    I must stress this was not at crew level but within the powers that be. The last thing the AC wanted to do was embark one of their nice shiny helos on a rusty scruffy pihching tennis court....and found every excuse under the sun not to do so.
                    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                    • #25
                      Time to forget about helicopters on board NS vessels?

                      Is it time to forget about the idea of having Helicopter Patrols Vessel(s) in the NS?

                      My own though is no, AC helicopters & personnel should go to sea, as they make a vessel more capable & flexible, as well as responsive.

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                      • #26
                        Helicopters on patrol vessels is something which was rendered obsolete with the introduction of the Casa. However having vessels which are able to at least land a medium size heli can only be an advantage when dealing with the Secondary naval role of Search And Rescue.


                        Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                        • #27
                          There is also the question of troop support and CASEVAC if deployed. For that, using helicopters is a prerequisite, so were a blue/green vessel to be ordered, then in that case, yes.

                          For small patrol vessels like those currently in service or likely to enter service, turning over the amount of deck space required for landing and operating helicopters in the coastal patrol (ie fisheries control) role seems a little excessive. HIFR should probably be standard, but not a heli deck. If the NS was to turn to an ASW role, that would be a different story, but that doesn't seem likely.

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                          • #28
                            The NS don't just patrol the coast, the Economic Exclusion Zone (EEZ) extends 200 miles from the coast. NS vessels have also patrolled off Canada.

                            The CASA can't do ASW work or pick up survivors / transport people to or from a ship.

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                            • #29
                              having vessels which are able to at least land a medium size heli can only be an advantage
                              Sort of a forward base to receive casualties or extend the range of the helicopter by refueling or even providing it with a lift home? Sounds sensible.DeV mentions Canada.Being able to land a Cormorant or USCG A139 might be benefical

                              The CASA are fantastic aircraft and fill the void of those disasterous Dauphins, but they can't always provide the flexibility of a shipboard helicopter.
                              The benefits of having shipboard helicopters?Well I can think of a few,most being that they provide the ship with an extension of its current capabilities such as extending detection range, responding to emergencies or certain threats faster and a few other bits and peices

                              The problems caused by having shipboard helicopters.Well those are a much longer list.You need a bigger ship to start with.Then you need the facilities to house and maintain it, then you need to have sailors trained to maintain it, then you need the helicopter, then you have to have the capability to launch and recover it, then you need fuel stores for it and equipment to fight fires when it has an accident and sets fire to your ship.Basically its a complete bugger to deal with.

                              Planes are much simpler to deal with though. You only need a radar and radio to work with one, unless you are on an aircraft carrier you don't have to care about maintaining them. They can fly further and for long etc. The only thing is, a plane cant pick people up or drop them off and you can't always be sure you are going to have a plane on call due to where you are.

                              Its a difficult choice but I don't have to make it
                              Si vis pacem para bellum

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                              • #30
                                The Eithne has fire monitors overlooking its heli deck, these are VERY useful for fighting fires on other vessels, oil rigs, etc too.

                                As to aircraft crew / technicians, many navies (including Ireland, New Zealand & Norway) deploy AC / air force personnel to fly & maintain there helicopters while at sea.

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