Naval air ops no more?

[thebig C]

size, weight and cost

The AS 555 is small and light. Bearing in mind that these helicopters would be operating from an 80 metre OPV, size and weight are very significant. The Lynx is twice as heavy as the AS 555, and the NH-90 is double that again.

Although prices for naval helicopters are not readily available, the AS 555 seems to cost around €5 million, compared to roughly €20 million for a new Lynx and €30 million for an NH-90.

[GoneToTheCanner]

I agreed with you about Lynx over Dauphins.The Dauphin was too much,too soon for the Don and the NS to cope with and I always regarded it as too fragile..I'm not against the use of light helicopters on ships on the basis of something rather than nothing, specifically the retention of skills.
regards
GttC

[hptmurphy]

You can have all the hlis you like class them what you want and pay what u like for them..but time has shown trying to operate any helo in a pitch and rolling deck just won't work..bear in mind the maxima was 4 degrees pitch and 5 degrees roll.....

[thebig C]

USN error

The days of deploying a mission specific heli with a ship seem to be gone for all but the larger navies.The trend worldwide(including the Arleigh Burke Flight 1 and 2 vessels)is for a helideck only. However what you have here is an ability to land helis. .....

The U.S. Navy made a mistake in not providing helicopters on the early Arleigh Burke class ships. That was rectified in 1994, and vessels launched since then have two Seahawks with full hangar facilities.

[Goldie fish]

Here we go again.
I am really getting tired of your blinkered position. You have here numerous experts who have done the job and know the risks involved yet you chose to select quotes that suit your skewed agenda.

You have done nothing to represent who you are, or where you are coming from with your wild suggestions. In the message board game you are known as a "Wind Up Merchant" or WUM.

Why must you continue to repeat the same old tired suggestions when we have all said NO?

Why?

Please

[yooklid]

Pains me to admit it it too, but he's also right about the Flight I/II Burkes.

Of course, the mission profile of the Burkes is entirely different to anything we'll ever put into the water.

[Piranha]

Would it be difficult to land a UAV on a 80m ship in these conditions?

[SARMAN]

Why not a Jay Halk?

[thebig C]

helicopter support equipment

You can have all the hlis you like class them what you want and pay what u like for them..but time has shown trying to operate any helo in a pitch and rolling deck just won't work..bear in mind the maxima was 4 degrees pitch and 5 degrees roll.....

Hi Hpt, Came across the following in a piece about the U.S. Navy's Oliver Perry class frigates:

"...Beginning with the FY 79 ships (FFG 36 and later), helicopter support equipment was aboard on completion: fin stabilizers, RAST (Recovery Assist, Secure, and Traverse system-not fitted as completed until FFG 50), and other systems. The RAST system permits helicopter launch and recovery with the ship rolling through 28 degrees and pitching 5 degrees...."

Did Eithne have that kind of equipment?

[pym]

If the future OPV's are designed with regular Helicopter deployments in mind, and HH-60 Jayhawk's are purchased (big ifs) it would serve to make the selection of the AW-139's for the Air Corps look very odd, since the UH-60 was in the running for that particular tender.

[Goldie fish]

Hi Hpt, Came across the following in a piece about the U.S. Navy's Oliver Perry class frigates:

"...Beginning with the FY 79 ships (FFG 36 and later), helicopter support equipment was aboard on completion: fin stabilizers, RAST (Recovery Assist, Secure, and Traverse system-not fitted as completed until FFG 50), and other systems. The RAST system permits helicopter launch and recovery with the ship rolling through 28 degrees and pitching 5 degrees...."

Did Eithne have that kind of equipment?

RAST is not compatible with Harpoon equipped helis. It also favours aircraft that do not have nose wheels. Eithne was(is) fitted with a McTaggart Scott system. I'll find the details later.

[hptmurphy]

UAV is handy enough..you just fly it to some thing like a big badminton net.Very little recovery space required.

Harpoon was used by the NS on the Eithne..wheels had to be on deck prior to recovery.

In the case of the Eithne it wasn't the size or weight of the helo..or recovery gear..it was the ship.Nice for clipping around Dublin bay or cruising around the bahamas on a sunny day.....pitch and roll are negligible.Their lordships in the department had never been around the Tuskar when they wanted to put a samll helo on a small ship and send it out in big seas....

Carrington.....try rolling a relatively light vessel...say 1900 tonnes 11 metres wide through 28 degrees....ain't no heli in the world going to be able to land on that..unless its nose down first..and the resulting crash will make it all so apparent.

So many factors to consider, most are only looking at the flat calm aspect without even considering winds etc.In perspective look at a S60 landing on an Arleigh Burke Class destroyer which is many times larger than Eithne and see how confined it is..now scale the whole thing down..but with weather conditions similar..

Concept of scale needs to be applied.

The virtues of putting light helos on small ships is far out weighed by the potential for disaster..given that radar , RHIBS and FP aircraft can do the similar role as requested of the dauphin in the FP role.

[aaron]

Agree with Carrington and others, maybe a further search of the world market to find some quality second hand naval helo's should be undertaken. I think that Ireland cannot lose its naval air ops as once it is lost well it is hard to get back.

[Goldie fish]

Too late, I don't think there are many crew remaining in the NS that are familiar with heli ops.
Best to start afresh, with a new heli, on a new deck, if it is considered to be an asset. However, as mentioned already throughout this thread, can the task be carried out more effectively by maritime patrol fixed win aircraft or UAV?

[hptmurphy]

Naval flight ops capability has long beeen lost...most of the gear associated with naval helo ops has long been removed from the ship and the people qualified were never kept current in their qualifications and many have moved on. If it was to be a future consideration...althe lessons learned and skills aquired would have to be from sctrach.