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  • #61
    Just a quick point. Apparently one of the Dauphins is in Norway to be overhauled and given a life extention so the dauphins might be around for a while yet.
    Education isn't everything, for a start it isn't an elephant

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    • #62
      they are to be sold off as the update cost per airframe is greater then the benefit that would be accumulated by any refurbishment. The machines have many airframe hours left and would probably be quite attractive to a civilian operator who could remove most of their specialized gear and operate them effectively.

      Please remember that the basic machine is excellent it was only the add on packages that the aircorps requested that rendered it unsuitable...these include a nav computer that required its own cooling fan whose weight nessecitated the removal of a fuel tank.....the aer corps were the architects of the down fall of the machine.
      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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      • #63
        Originally posted by hptmurphy
        Oh god the walters are at it again...what ASW capability...what submarine threat......
        I don't know of many armed trawlers either, so why do we need 76mm guns ? A couple of HMGs would be more than enough to deal with the threats encountered in the primary role. The same argument applied to the Army would see the removal of all AA capability (when's the last time Ireland was subject to Air Attack ?), all anti-tank weaponry ....


        Originally posted by hptmurphy
        the primary role of our Naval Service is fishery protection........
        With due attention directed to the word "primary", which does not perforce preclude secondary roles.
        Last edited by Guest; 2 November 2004, 19:36.

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        • #64
          Eh the army spends a lot more time in tank rich environments than the all domestic defence force some people seem to imagine.
          A lot of those funny looking foreigners that we all find so cute and amusing are quite grateful when the army shows up...so much so that one might even call the ability to defend both ourselves and those we take responsibility for on deployment a priority...as compared to say: things that look cool.
          "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Come-quickly
            Eh the army spends a lot more time in tank rich environments than the all domestic defence force some people seem to imagine.
            A lot of those funny looking foreigners that we all find so cute and amusing are quite grateful when the army shows up...so much so that one might even call the ability to defend both ourselves and those we take responsibility for on deployment a priority...as compared to say: things that look cool.
            Yes, but those deployments are not the "primary" role of the Army. We have no real reason to be deploying our troops outside of our borders .....

            Before I'm attacked let me make it clear that I fully support our overseas engagement and believe strongly that we should contribute more robustly.

            Your comment above actually makes the case for naval capabilities outside the strict requirements of the NS's primary role. The NS could contribute to our overseas efforts just as the Army does, but not if it doesn't have the capability.

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            • #66
              How would operating the flying equivalent of a peugot 406 from Eithne better equip the eithne for either role?
              "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

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              • #67
                I'd say its more like a Citroen Xsara..


                Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                • #68
                  OK lets start with primary......lets give too pages dealing withnthe roles of the NS...on the other hand lets not...but in the lack of a direct threat of agressive war and some drug interdiction this is themain beneficila service that the NS provides.

                  Given the limited scope that the army has some limited AA protection has to be provided and could be used in an overseas role in variuos other roles . the primary weapons on the NS vessels for FP have been dictated by the EU in the role. The vessels have been concieved as minor warefare vessels and are armed accordingly and are armed with practical weapons . ASW vessesl are specialised and have weapon fits that are appropriate to their concieved role..in the case of NS vessels asw is not a percieved role so there is not requirement.

                  Why do I have to keep explaining the role and weapons fits of NS vessels when it is blatantly obvious that the said vessels have a very basic warfare capacity...could we please organise a guided tour in which all the idealists would be given what the actual capabilities of our NS is and how impossible it is for us to undertake the roles that some of the illusionists here percieve that role to be
                  Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                  • #69
                    all those who have spent time aboard NS vessels and are aware of the actual capabilities are ..hands up


                    All those who haven't......**** off!

                    I'm pissed off with your mindless rantings and wish that you would study the subject before you infuriate the rest of us with your valueless rantings on the current fleet.

                    And all those who wish for great things for the NS .....you have **** all hope...this is as good as it gets ...now post on some thing else you are clearly out of your depth!
                    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                    • #70
                      Possibly worth mentioning at this point that Eithne is back at Haulbowline without her 57mm. The work in the drydock was speeded up to free up the dock for a cargo ship which was damaged in the recent storms.The New boats are not yet fitted either,however none of this work needs to be done in a specialised Dockyard. Also in the Dockyard is L.E. Roisin,which suffered some damage during the rescue attempt of the Canadian submarine. Photos to follow.


                      Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                      • #71
                        We have 76mm guns because they came with the two Peacock vessels when we bought them, for standardisation purposes it makes sense to equip new vessels with guns of the same caliber.

                        Getting back to the point, it's all well & good to list the possible roles a ship-borne heli can operate in, but the reality is that the usefulness of a single HPV is questionable. If the NS had more of the P31 class things might have worked out, but as it stands there's little point in spending the money on putting a single heli on a single vessel.
                        "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by hptmurphy
                          all those who have spent time aboard NS vessels and are aware of the actual capabilities are ..hands up


                          All those who haven't......**** off!

                          I'm pissed off with your mindless rantings and wish that you would study the subject before you infuriate the rest of us with your valueless rantings on the current fleet.

                          And all those who wish for great things for the NS .....you have **** all hope...this is as good as it gets ...now post on some thing else you are clearly out of your depth!
                          OK then. I was prepared to read your posts and give your opinion the respect it is due ..... but you obviously haven't mastered the art of civilised discussion.

                          And remember, thats all this is, a discussion board. Whats the point of having a thread about which new Helo's should the DF get ? The opinions in here have no effect .... But the point is it is just a discussion.

                          And no, I haven't served in the NS. My father did (corvettes) and I have had a lifetime interest in things military and naval. I did consider joining as a Cadet when I left school, but financial reality won out in the end.

                          So I'm not a serving NS member, but I hadn't realised thei meant I should stay shut up and not contribute to discussion on anything relating to the NS.

                          One question, as non-politicians, does this also mean we cannot make any observations or comments on political matters also ?
                          Last edited by Guest; 3 November 2004, 19:09.

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                          • #73
                            I think what the Good HPT was trying to say in a frustrated way was that this discussion has come up over and over again,and for the most part those who are loudest in their commentry are those who know nothing about the topic,apart from something they may have seen once on discovery channel or read in a book.
                            They then try to tell people like Mr Murphy who has served aboard a naval Vessel,and is one of the few who is trained in aircraft handling aboard an Irish naval Vessel,that he doesnt know what he is talking about,that they know better.
                            Would you blame him for getting a mite irritated?


                            Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                            • #74
                              Please show me where I suggested he didn't know what he was saying ? As a civilian I have the greatest respect for serving members and their opinions, but am I disqualified from expressing an opinion or indeed from civilised comments ?

                              Of course we know the liklihood of the Department ever having enough resources to provide what was being discused is non-existant.

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                              • #75
                                Dont assume he was directing the tirade at you specifically. He would be directing it at those individuals who want the small fleet of the NS to be equipped with missiles and attack helis. People who want Aegis Destroyers to do Fishery protection..


                                Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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