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  1. #251
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    The ship has a permanent crew of 11 for good reason


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  2. #252
    Teuton Foot Soldier ZULU's Avatar
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    Story in today's times about Dive group mentioned in Dail questions returning items salvaged off wreck.
    "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

  3. #253
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    Hi there,
    Coiste An Asgard was probably the only State organisation that paid for itself. The actual office staff numbered about 4 and the crews were effectively all volunteers, ie, giving of their time and expertise for nominal fees. From what I heard, the Asgard II was regarded as near perfect by the crews in terms of handling, utility, seaworthiness, condition and all-round popularity with crews and guests alike. The Jeannie Johnston was described to me as being the exact opposite, being unwieldy, being a poor "handler" and effectively a poor ship, having been "designed" by too many people.
    Right now, what the Coiste needs is a benign millionaire to fund a replacement.
    regards
    GttC

  4. #254
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Report out today.
    Fantastic report on how the permanent crew reacted. Strong criticism of one of the liferafts, whose floor collapsed soon after it entered the water.

    A report into the sinking of the sail training vessel Asgard II off the coast of France two years ago has found that it probably struck an underwater object.

    The report by the Marine Casualty Investigation Board says the impact caused major planking failure.

    However, they were unable to establish the exact cause of the initial failure of timber planks.

    Asgard II sank in the Bay of Biscay in the early morning of 11 September 2008. Two French lifeboats rescued all 25 trainees and crew.

    The report says the five permanent crew members, particularly the Master, dealt with the situation in a professional and brave manner.

    One life-raft failed during the evacuation and the report found that the life-raft floor failed as a result of the deterioration of the glue joint between the floor joint and the side tubes.

    Following the initial flooding of the trainee mess, water slowly leaked through the bulkheads into the adjacent spaces.

    The report says the flooding of the trainee mess was the result of the major structural failure of the hull planking on the starboard side.

    It also says the failure of a portable salvage pump did not effect the final outcome of the incident.

    The MCIB says Asgard II was designated as a cargo rather than a passenger ship.

    Passenger vessels are regulated to ensure that a single failure should not lead to a total loss of the system.

    The MCIB recommended that the status of trainees on board cargo vessels should be reviewed.

    It also recommends that the Department of Transport should review the law relating to sail training ships.

    It also urges the Minister to encourage Lloyd's Register to complete the review of the survey procedures for wooden classed ships.

    The MCIB says that the Asgard II complied with the relevant laws at the time. The survey regime and operational procedures were above the minimum requirements.

    The report says the owners maintained the vessel to a high standard and there were no recorded problems with the hull or fastenings at the time of the incident.
    Full report HERE


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  5. #255
    timmii3
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    Hard to believe I met the man who was the first officer of La belle poule the night Asgard 2 sank. He was commander of the Mutin. Dingle July 2011.

  6. #256
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Delighted to see an informative answer from the minister being ignored by the terrorist turned parish pump politician ferris.

    Just because something was built in kerry does not make it good. Quite the opposite, the ship is a floating museum, and just about floating for that matter.
    20. Deputy Martin Ferris asked the Minister for Defence if he has approached the Department of Finance to secure funding to re-establish an Irish sail training vessel. [6837/12]

    Deputy Alan Shatter: As the Government has no plans to re-establish a national sail training scheme or to procure a ship to replace the Asgard II, I have made no approach for funding to the Department of Finance. In the context of settling the Estimates for the Department of Defence for 2010, the previous Government decided that the national sail training scheme, operated by Coiste an Asgard, would be discontinued, as recommended in the report of the special group on public service numbers and expenditure programmes.

    Deputy Martin Ferris: Does the Minister agree that it would be a good idea to utilise the Jeanie Johnston, a vessel built at considerable expense to taxpayers, as an ideal replacement for the Asgard II for the purposes of sail training schemes? The vessel was built in my area and involved a cross-community initiative whereby young lads from both Protestant and Catholic communities in the Six Counties worked together. It is a beautiful ship with a fantastic historical record in terms of its travels across the Atlantic, during which no lives were lost. It should not be sitting idle in the Dublin docks.

    Deputy Alan Shatter: My Department has been approached on numerous occasions with proposals to use the Jeanie Johnston for sail training purposes, but this was never considered a viable option for several reasons. The vessel has not sailed in all conditions, can reach a maximum speed of only 7 knots and is limited in its ability to sail upwind. The working area is not suitable for sail training as there are no side decks and too much open space. Trainees would have nothing to hold onto if they fell, potentially leading to injuries and subsequent legal action. Furthermore, as helmsmen cannot see the sails or where the ship is going, lookouts must stand on the boom to give directions, which is of no value in the context of sail training. In addition, operating and rigging maintenance costs would be high. Some 70% of ports visited by the Asgard II could not be visited by the Jeanie Johnston as it is too large to dock. It is understood little or no work has been carried out on the vessel since it was purchased by the Dublin Docklands Development Authority in 2005. The rigging is likely to be in a poor condition at this stage and would cost up to €1 million to replace. Unfortunately, having regard to the difficulties outlined and the associated cost factors, the Jeanie Johnston is not deemed to be a feasible alternative to the Asgard II. As such, the Government has no plans to utilise it for the purposes proposed by the Deputy.

    Deputy Martin Ferris: I am disappointed at the brief the Minister has been given in regard to the Jeanie Johnston. The vessel has been tried and tested and only a minimal amount of tweaking would bring it into line with the criteria for sail training. It is a waste of money to have a vessel which cost €15 million to build sitting idle when it could be utilised as a national resource.
    Deputy Alan Shatter: I have outlined all of the difficulties of which I have been advised. The appropriateness or otherwise of utilising the ship in the way the Deputy proposes was addressed in the report of the special group on public service numbers and expenditure programmes. In current circumstances, when there are substantial financial difficulties and limited funds, we do not have the luxury of spending money on refitting or re-rigging the ship. In the context of the safety issues to which I referred and its incapacity to dock at a variety of locations, the vessel is not a viable alternative in the manner proposed. Having a particular interest in this matter, I took the opportunity, only a short time after my appointment, to examine the feasibility of what the Deputy is suggesting. Unfortunately, the incompatibilities and associated costs make it inappropriate in the current economic climate.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  7. #257
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    It sickens me when I read of anyone from Sinn Fein talking about wasting money in this country given the millions that were spent every year for nearly forty years securing our borders against their lords and masters the IRA, and given these scum now draw handsome salaries and in time pensions from the state that spent so much money on trying to put especially Ferris etc co out of commission full time.
    Time for another break I think......

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  9. #258
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    Yep, you said it. The hypocrites are now in office and all the old rules go out the window.

    regards
    GttC

  10. #259
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  11. #260
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danno View Post
    Link fail

  12. #261
    Amadan Orion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Link fail
    http://www.eveningecho.ie/life/Sea-E...8819f5f7a10-ds

    Failing that type Asgard in the search box
    Last edited by Orion; 13th June 2017 at 23:48.

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  14. #262
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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  16. #263
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  17. #264
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    So reportedly there was some news at Seafest:
    Taoiseach Leo Varadkar has expressed support for a new all-island sail training ship that would be a replacement for the Asgard II.

    A €16 million plan to build a new vessel could be discussed by Ireland’s two governments if the Northern Executive is restored in the coming days, he said.

    Mr Varadkar made the comments while visiting SeaFest 2017 in Galway on Saturday.

    The Taoiseach said that sail training was “one of the areas where we could have North-South co-operation, and also very important cross-community co-operation.

    “I think that . . . a lot of people really regret the fact that the Asgard II isn’t available anymore, but are also cognisant of the potential cost of replacing it.”

    He added: “Certainly it is something we can engage in.”

    Since the State-owned brigantine Asgard II sank off the French coast in 2008, Irish sail trainees have been placed on “ships of opportunity” by Sail Training Ireland, a charity formed in 2011 with the support of Dublin Port.

    The Atlantic Youth Trust, a cross-Border organisation founded by Enda O’Coineen, is seeking Government and other funding for a new €16 million sail training vessel, modelled on the 45m steel-hull ship built for the Spirit of Adventure Trust in New Zealand.

    The trust has also found ships of opportunity for trainees – among them 15-year-old Owen Moorehead, from Lisburn, who met Mr Varadkar on board the tall ship The Phoenix in Galway at the weekend.

    Moorehead sailed from Galway to Warrenpoint, Co Down, after last year’s SeaFest, hitting heavy weather on leaving Galway Bay.

    “I loved it, and it gave me the confidence to train as a cadet for the Lisburn fire service,” he said.

    He now holds qualifications in fire safety, first aid, and defibrillation, and has decided to apply for the Naval Service when he leaves school.

    “I had been thinking of the Army before that, but being on The Phoenix with the Atlantic Youth Trust just changed everything, [it] gave me a sense of responsibility and of freedom,” Moorehead said.

    ‘Delighted’
    Mr Varadkar, who was briefed on the Atlantic Youth Trust’s plans during his time as minister for tourism and sport, said he was delighted to be associated with SeaFest.

    “We are a small island - everyone knows that - but the amount of sea area that we control is 10 times our land mass,” he said.

    “There’s enormous potential in sport, tourism, energy, exploration - also of course in fisheries - to really exploit the economic potential of the marine, while also always bearing in mind the need to protect the marine environment,” he said.

    Organisers of SeaFest estimate that between 80,000 and 100,000 people attended the event at Galway Docks over its three days.

    The event included a civic and military service to remember all those who had lost their lives at sea.

    The service, which was addressed by Fine Gael mayor of Galway Pearce Flannery, was held two days before the 18th anniversary of the helicopter crash that killed four Air Corps search-and-rescue crew members off the Co Waterford coast.
    Looking at the Spirit of New Zealand, such a ship would be a fairly massive step up on Asgard 2.

  18. #265
    Lieutenant X-RayOne's Avatar
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    well......as there's now £1 billion floating around the North I'm sure the DUP would be more than happy to fund the new boat........

    "The Taoiseach said that sail training was “one of the areas where we could have North-South co-operation, and also very important cross-community co-operation."
    Fate whispers to the warrior, "There is a storm coming"

    And the warrior whispers back "I am the storm".

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  20. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by X-RayOne View Post
    well......as there's now £1 billion floating around the North I'm sure the DUP would be more than happy to fund the new boat........

    "The Taoiseach said that sail training was “one of the areas where we could have North-South co-operation, and also very important cross-community co-operation."
    I'm sure that's needed for keeping the boilers burning...
    The DUP would stick us for any majority of the funding.

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  22. #267
    Commander in Chief
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    They'd never let it sail under anything other than the Red ensign. (Except maybe the White ensign).
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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  24. #268
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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  26. #269
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    Yeah, think there was a bit of a clip of this on RTE back when it was announced, didn anything ever come of that suggestion of looking at a new ship like the one New Zealand has or did that die a death as usual?

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