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  1. #176
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hedgehog View Post
    It is of no signifiance as its merely a replica of the original Asgard-

    the only historical or nostaligcal significance is that some posh kids had there first sexual encounter

    on it- whilst on posh kids holidays
    It isn't a replica of the original asgard. Childers Yacht was a Gaff Rigged Ketch. Asgard II is a Brigantine.(it has square sails).
    And as for your comment about posh kids. Withdraw it, or i will reveal your secret.

    The clock is ticking.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  2. #177
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    ahhh that comment

    PM me details of the secret

    just in case its my really juicy one
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  3. #178
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    The one you told me just recently. You lost your PM privelages....


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  4. #179
    Colonel johnny no stars's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZULU View Post
    Not quite. Am I right in saying the Asgard II fell under the dept of Defence? If that is the case then she is a military training vessel and as such is protected against salvage by unauthorised persons indefinatley

    Just look at the gold find off that spanish galleon a couple of years back. The salvage crew were detained by Spanish authorities because any property on a military ship remains the property of the State its from. Well thats my understanding of it.

    The marine salvage laws are about as deep as the Mariana Trench!
    bollox...

    and I was all set to raid daddy's savings and have me a nice new boat (just for you hedgie)
    Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
    Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
    Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
    Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

  5. #180
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    Not quite. Am I right in saying the Asgard II fell under the dept of Defence? If that is the case then she is a military training vessel and as such is protected against salvage by unauthorised persons indefinatley

    The following is from Coiste an Asgard:

    While "Asgard II" is owned by the State and the Minister for Defence is its registered owner, it is not a Naval Service vessel. It is managed by Coiste an Asgard, the committee first formed in 1968 which is now a company limited by guarantee. The Chairman of the company is the Minister for Defence and most of the other directors are experienced yachts people with a keen interest in sail training. Coiste an Asgard is also a founding member of Sail Training International, the body which regulates sail training throughout the world.


    She's NOT a military vessel.

  6. #181
    Armchair Admiral ocean's Avatar
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    She was not under the command of a commissioned officer of the state - therefore does not fulfill the tests of UNCLOS

  7. #182
    Teuton Foot Soldier ZULU's Avatar
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    Thats why I was asking if she was or not. Didn't know if she was. Thanks for the informed answers.

    I'll just go get my dive gear.........
    "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

  8. #183
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    To be honest about it, being a military vessel would mean feck all if she carried something anyone was interested in, several ''classified'' wrecks have bee explored/salvaged in the past , and no doubt , will be in the future...
    Willie is to be congratulated on the extent of his dithering, to make sure the ship was beyond economic repair, so they could collect the insurance for the state coffers instead of removing another huge peice of litter off the seabed.
    One wonderd what the motivation for this was.

    Perhaps [sir] Tony or some other rich Irish person will step in and rescue the AsgardII from the seabed, but I doubt it, as there is no profit in it and this country is only run on greed...
    "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
    Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
    Illegitimi non carborundum

  9. #184
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    Perhaps the 4,500 people who signed the petition at the recent boat show

    would put there own hands in there own pockets and pay for there own kids sail training.


    Of my circle of freinds and acquinatances and even in my barracks (CBB) I could not find one person who

    knows anyone who got to go on the Asgard
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  10. #185
    bosun
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    Quote Originally Posted by david View Post
    The following is from Coiste an Asgard:

    While "Asgard II" is owned by the State and the Minister for Defence is its registered owner, it is not a Naval Service vessel. It is managed by Coiste an Asgard, the committee first formed in 1968 which is now a company limited by guarantee. The Chairman of the company is the Minister for Defence and most of the other directors are experienced yachts people with a keen interest in sail training. Coiste an Asgard is also a founding member of Sail Training International, the body which regulates sail training throughout the world.


    She's NOT a military vessel.
    :confused: I wonder what these so called experienced people insure their own yachts for as they had not a clue what asgard was insured for when she sank ,, time to look at the account books minister

  11. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by hedgehog View Post
    Of my circle of freinds and acquinatances and even in my barracks (CBB) I could not find one person who

    knows anyone who got to go on the Asgard
    Perhaps a more appropriate question to ask them would be if any of them know anyone who actually APPLIED to sail on her.

    If you didn't apply, Coiste an Asgard weren't going to come looking for you...



    I know lots of people who didn't sail on her, as none of them applied to sail on her.

    I have yet to meet anybody who sought to sail on her but was turned down. Everyone that I know who applied went on and sailed on her.
    Last edited by david; 25th February 2009 at 13:56.

  12. #187
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    Perhaps the 4,500 people who signed the petition at the recent boat show

    would put there own hands in there own pockets and pay for there own kids sail training.
    I agree with this. I signed the petition and will gladly fork out a donation should a fund be started to raise her.

  13. #188
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    hedgie,
    I promise you, if they build an Asgard III or get a replacement, we'll do our level best, here in IMO-land, to get an application(chip-free) under your nose and the noses of your acquaintances and likely family members, get them to fill it in and send em on and see what happens. They might actually like it, which may come as a complete shock to your system.
    regards
    GttC(de-chipped by Asgard)

  14. #189
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    I know at least 1 person who was on Asgard II and seafaring is now their career.

  15. #190
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    That's a serious chip you have on you're shoulder there hedgehog. You might wan't to talk to somebody about it. Seriously, you couldn't be further from the mark on this one. While it was very hard to get on the Asgard for the Tall Ships race, one should have had no problem getting a berth on her at other time. The two times I sailed on the Asgard were some of the happiest times of my life and I am now considering a nautical career as a result. And I don't come from the "posh yachtie" background you keep alluding to.

  16. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by david View Post
    I agree with this. I signed the petition and will gladly fork out a donation should a fund be started to raise her.
    Thats not what hedgehog said.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Margaret Mead

  17. #192
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Deputy Simon Coveney: This matter has been handled appallingly. This vessel, which is owned by the Irish State, sank almost six months ago. Thank God no one lost their life because the crew managed to get off the vessel before it sank. The vessel has a significant history. It is not a yachting issue for people who like to go sailing or send their children sailing. The Asgard’s role is far more fundamental. Some 10,000 people from all sorts of backgrounds have been on the vessel during sail training programmes of various types that were highly valuable. I have personal experience of the positive effects that sail training can have on people who need direction and guidance. The Asgard fulfilled that role, but it is now at the bottom of the sea. I spoke to the Minister last week and gave him a proposal that was put together by a series of people who wanted to compile an accurate costing for the vessel’s refurbishment if it was refloated. Some €3.8 million is available to the Minister in insurance attached to the Asgard II. It will cost approximately €1.5 million to €2 million to raise the vessel, which leaves in or around €2 million to refurbish it.

    Deputy Deenihan and I told the Minister that if he is going to leave the ship at the bottom of the sea, he should at least give us a written consideration as to why he is doing so, backed up with evidence and costings. We do not want the opinions of the board of Coiste an Asgard which made a recommendation to the Minister, having discussed the issue at length. I want to see hard evidence before I will support any proposal to leave this vessel at the bottom of the sea.

    Neither will I accept that the vessel cannot be raised and refurbished at a cost that is potentially much less than the Minister’s proposal to build a new vessel, a steel replica of Asgard II. Such a proposal will cost between €5 million and €7 million which is not an option in the current economic environment. The Government knows that. This is a spin job to get people to accept that the boat will remain at the bottom of the sea. The Government does not want to raise the vessel and does not want the risks associated with that. It promises to build a replica at some stage in the future but I do not believe it will.

    The least the Opposition can expect is that the Minister will provide a written report outlining the basis of the recommendation to leave this vessel, which has already been valued at €4 million, unsalvaged. There is also an investigative responsibility on the Minister to discover why the ship sank which will not be established unless it is raised.
    I wouldn's send that jackeen with the chip on the new Asgard, if its ever built. A chip that size would only cause the new ship to capsize.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  18. #193
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    UK Tall Ships trust Brig for sale

    http://www.tallships.org/document.asp?cat=866&doc=7325

  19. #194
    The Gaffer Boomer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gekko View Post
    What sort of value would there be on this ship?

  20. #195
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish View Post
    I wouldn's send that jackeen with the chip on the new Asgard, if its ever built. A chip that size would only cause the new ship to capsize.
    If SImon my dad was the TD therefore I have the right to the seat Coveney

    is so interested in sailing for the masses

    why does he allow his family boat ( the HM Trust fund)

    to be used to take the thousands of ordinary people interested in sailing

    out on the high seas
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  21. #196
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Down in cork we have a system that may be alien to you. It's called an election. People vote for who they consider to be the best person for the Job. Simon is. His Father also was an honourable man who would still be a fine public representative, was it not for his tragic death.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  22. #197
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish View Post
    Down in cork we have a system that may be alien to you. It's called an election. People vote for who they consider to be the best person for the Job. Simon is. His Father also was an honourable man who would still be a fine public representative, was it not for his tragic death.

    I think that the blue shirt version of an election and the rest of Chrisendoms version are

    poles apart

    when Daddy Coveney died- there were 2 main candidates to replace him

    1 was a girl who looked after his constituency and knew the constiuency inside out, had worked there loyally for years and was extremely popular with the constituents.

    the second watuencys a young lad whose only experience was handing out leaflets for
    the sitting TD- he wasnt even in the country he was away sailing the world (charitable gig)
    but he had an ace in the hole

    The dead TD was his daddy- the blue shirts chose neoptism and imposed young simon on the constitituency-



    and just in case you think this no longer happens

    there is a lass taking a case against the blue shirts in the High Court tommorow

    in that in violation of its own party Constitution, the blue shirts refused to allow

    the party faithful choose who contests the forth coming local election in

    Dunlaighoire


    and you have the cheek to tell me about elections
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  23. #198
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Hmm

    Brain Cowen
    Brain lenihan
    Conor Lenihan
    Sean Haughey

    should I go on?


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  24. #199
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    Christ yes

    Its wrong no matter who does it


    by jaysus you were quick though in your reply
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  25. #200
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    80. Deputy Richard Bruton asked the Minister for Defence if at any stage he was advised that Asgard II could be raised; the length of time involved in preparing surveys assessing the condition of the Asgard II underwater; if those surveys recorded a decline in the condition of Asgard II due to the length of time underwater; if provided with private finance, he would support a raising of Asgard II; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9866/09]

    Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): Insofar as I am concerned, the question as to whether or not Asgard 11 could be raised is not an issue. The main factors that have to be considered are the likely cost of a salvage operation, the condition of the vessel after salvage and, if the vessel is capable of being restored, the cost of restoration. As the Deputy is aware, the board of An Coiste unanimously recommended to me that a salvage operation should not be undertaken, and I accepted that recommendation.

    During the period from the sinking of the vessel on 11 September 2008 up to the end of November, the initial underwater survey was carried out and a preferred salvage contractor was identified as a result of a tender process conducted by the insurer of the vessel, Allianz Plc. That initial survey revealed that the vessel was lying upright in some 80m of water and appeared to be largely intact other than some visible damage to one of the hull planks. Apart from that, the survey did not reveal anything about the extent of damage to the vessel.

    Following consideration of the outcome of the tender process, the board of An Coiste decided in early December that a further underwater survey should be carried out as soon as possible. However, it did not prove possible to arrange that survey until 28 January 2009. In the event, it was not possible to complete the survey due to adverse weather conditions. However, a sonar image of the vessel was obtained which appeared to show it to be still in an upright position.

    As I have already indicated, I am open to considering any realistic and funded proposals from private individuals or groups as to the future of the vessel.

    Coiste an Asgard.

    60. Deputy James Bannon asked the Minister for Defence the names of the members of Coiste an Asgard; the qualification or experience each board member has in sail training; if he is satisfied that each of them have the necessary qualifications to make a judgement on whether the Asgard II should be salvaged; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9859/09]

    Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): The Minister for Defence is ex-officio a director of Coiste an Asgard. At present the other members of the board are:

    Ms Joannes Berkery

    Mr Brian Byrne

    Mr James Gleeson

    Mr Pat Hogan

    Mr Gerard Kiely

    Commodore Frank Lynch

    Mr Paddy Madden

    Mr Gerry McMahon

    Mr Seamus McLoughlin

    Ms Kalanne O’Leary

    Mr Eoin O’Mahony

    Mr Joe McPeake

    Mr Noel Ryan

    I am satisfied that all of the directors have relevant qualifications and experience to be effective members of the board. I should mention that no fees are paid to any of the directors, who give freely of their time and expertise to the sail training scheme.



    Asgard II Replacement Vessel.

    61. Deputy Brian O’Shea asked the Minister for Defence the reason for his decision not to proceed with plans to salvage the Asgard II; if his attention has been drawn to the disappointment his decision has caused, particularly to persons who have received training on the vessel and others who hoped to do so in the future; if he will reconsider the decision; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9758/09]

    Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): As the Deputy will be aware, I have accepted the unanimous recommendation of the board of Coiste an Asgard not to proceed with the salvage of Asgard II. The main reason for that decision was that I considered that the risks were too great to commit to spending a sum in the region of €2 million at this time on a salvage effort where the outcome is uncertain. I also had to consider the cost of restoration, which cannot be accurately assessed until after the vessel is raised. Obviously, the greater the damage caused to the vessel, the higher the cost of restoration. The decision not to proceed with a salvage operation was taken after very thorough consideration of all relevant factors and I regret that I am not in a position to reconsider that decision.

    However, as I have already stated, while I cannot commit public monies to a salvage operation, I will consider any realistic and funded proposals from private individuals or groups with regard to the future of Asgard II.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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