The Future of the Army Reserve - Discuss

[ODIN]

Great points here but there is a another big between PDF and RDF and that can be a lack of understanding of how the two different world's operate and their respective commitments.

Take point 4. Cav trooper is a mechanic. Cav trooper is asked to help. He/she might be asked to help at weekend but it is far more likely that they would be asked to help during the week when workshop is open and procedures and protocols can be followed.

Cav troopers suggests that they complete work on a Saturday morning and this is ridiculous to the PDF mechanic as it's their weekend off.
PDF suggests that Cav trooper comes in on a Tuesday at 11 to look at it and this is ridiculous to him/her as they have only a finite amount leave which they already use quite a lot of to facilitate their service on courses etc.

Just a culture shock. Now I know there exceptions. There are RDF members who have used up so much leave it's no doubt caused issue for their loved ones and I know of PDF who have worked weekends essentially for nothing to help out the reserve.

Valid points. A mind shift is going to be needed for it to work, whether at an institutional level in DF, or a Governmental level by introducing employment protection legislation.

The reserve needs to be modelled to assist the PDF at home, and potentially in ATCP/ATCA operations.

[Auldsod]

Valid points. A mind shift is going to be needed for it to work, whether at an institutional level in DF, or a Governmental level by introducing employment protection legislation.

The reserve needs to be modelled to assist the PDF at home, and potentially in ATCP/ATCA operations.

That should definitely be the focus and if numbers were increased and the age profile reduced again, you'd have a large body of somewhat trained soldiery if there was ever a national crisis. Basically, they could be brought up to full time standard in a fast track fashion. The clue is in the name 'reserve'. Our defence forces are essentially our insurance policy for when the 'sh*t hits the fan', the reserve should be the reinsurance policy for that.

I'm sure it's been thought of before but should the reserve really be a mirror for the PDF? Would it make more sense for the reserve to focus on the 'Corps' tasks such as transport, CIS and engineering? Just a logistical backbone in case the PDF ever had to expand. Also, don't forget in an ATCP situation be it natural disaster, strike, etc - transport, communications, etc are more useful than hundreds of infantry trained reservists?

[DeV]

That should definitely be the focus and if numbers were increased and the age profile reduced again, you'd have a large body of somewhat trained soldiery if there was ever a national crisis. Basically, they could be brought up to full time standard in a fast track fashion. The clue is in the name 'reserve'. Our defence forces are essentially our insurance policy for when the 'sh*t hits the fan', the reserve should be the reinsurance policy for that.

I'm sure it's been thought of before but should the reserve really be a mirror for the PDF? Would it make more sense for the reserve to focus on the 'Corps' tasks such as transport, CIS and engineering? Just a logistical backbone in case the PDF ever had to expand. Also, don't forget in an ATCP situation be it natural disaster, strike, etc - transport, communications, etc are more useful than hundreds of infantry trained reservists?

Except the smaller the DF gets the more the RDF is needed for day to day tasks

That includes simple stuff like acting an enemy, doing duties, producing personnel in numbers

Infantry always required

[Auldsod]

Except the smaller the DF gets the more the RDF is needed for day to day tasks

That includes simple stuff like acting an enemy, doing duties, producing personnel in numbers

Infantry always required

Ah but with the Corps units can also act as an enemy, do duties and produce personnel in numbers.

[batterysgt]

Tbh lads id be more interested in getting the numbers back up. Sort out recruitment and retention 1st before we start worrying about overseas
We cant even train at the minute due to restrictions.
So if we can sort out recruitment ect then worry about overseas.
Im sure the PDF would be glad of a break if we did a few duties for them to help with workload so even that would be a start.

That really is the way forward. Not overseas. Focus on what has been suggested up above. That should be the only real 3-5 plan we should have and that really should be the focus of rdfra. If we don't we are saying, never have so many owed so little to so few. In other words, representation members were busy claiming paid FTT meeting with ministers, government committees to arrange for a few to travel overseas, while the rest got older or pissed so left the organisation because so much was done for a few specialists. Rec and retain, get the numbers up and then push for better. Use the best rdf recruitment model ie DFTC under 1mic and copy for the masses, hold mass rec camps from all brigade, staffed by some PDF as oversight and instructed by RDF sic2 instructors. Put a plan together and submit. DRES office has two Lt Col, come up with a plan for ACOS to agree with and GS to order it to happen, this is for when covid fcuks off and we hopefully get back to normality. Use representation to push that. The PDF want the answer and they must feel like they have control or it's a none runner.

[hptmurphy]

Not that I’m aware of


There was an ask by PDF to deploy a very small number of RDF personnel a couple of years ago to support the EUBG and they weren’t allowed go.

Realistically speaking we might be talking an few engineers (could be civvy engineers in the infantry) going over for a few weeks to upgrade a camp, could be a senior officer for a few days for a conference, could be an officer on a 2 week course in the U.K.

It is never likely/necessary to be compulsory and will be only those available.

CIS officer from Cork also a member here deployed as part of a EUBG exercise a few years ago, a bout 6 weeks IIRC

[DeV]

CIS officer from Cork also a member here deployed as part of a EUBG exercise a few years ago, a bout 6 weeks IIRC

Not an EU mission, EUBG exercise

Same for 2CIS

[DeV]

That really is the way forward. Not overseas. Focus on what has been suggested up above. That should be the only real 3-5 plan we should have and that really should be the focus of rdfra. If we don't we are saying, never have so many owed so little to so few. In other words, representation members were busy claiming paid FTT meeting with ministers, government committees to arrange for a few to travel overseas, while the rest got older or pissed so left the organisation because so much was done for a few specialists. Rec and retain, get the numbers up and then push for better. Use the best rdf recruitment model ie DFTC under 1mic and copy for the masses, hold mass rec camps from all brigade, staffed by some PDF as oversight and instructed by RDF sic2 instructors. Put a plan together and submit. DRES office has two Lt Col, come up with a plan for ACOS to agree with and GS to order it to happen, this is for when covid fcuks off and we hopefully get back to normality. Use representation to push that. The PDF want the answer and they must feel like they have control or it's a none runner.

And NSR

The plan/model is there Bdes & units refuse to use it!

RDF SIC2 instrs? Only SIC2 Instrs can instruct career courses!

RDFRA and Sen RDF officers are pushing an open door, as I said it’s Bdes & units that are the issue

[ODIN]

RDFRA and Sen RDF officers are pushing an open door, as I said it’s Bdes & units that are the issue

If that is true, and as RDF Units are now under the Command and Control of PDF commanding officers, where is the fault?

[trellheim]

with ministers, government committees to arrange for a few to travel overseas, while the rest got older or pissed so left the organisation because so much was done for a few specialists

This is cobblers for a number of reasons. Very little if at all was done. Any official proposal for RDF to go overseas came with a "specialists only" and "resign from the RDF" caveat with it as PDF would refuse if RDF were officially put in charge i.e travelled as NCOs or Officers ( though this did not apply to MOs, you could keep your rank if you were a doc ) Although not overtly stated that was the line that was taken even for specialists. Since they knew we would all refuse they could then claim they had done their bit. This left a very bad taste and still does. 12 years on There has been no other official program. Ignore all the "my mate knows a guy who went" stuff. Take this from someone who did their overseas medical in the run up to that program and I know everyone who's been talked about in the pages above.

The above said, this was a very narrow band piece, the main reserve carried on (and still does).

Problems at the moment
1) continuing to treat RDF recruiting like PDF recruiting much quicker timelines
2) terrible timelines for medicals

[DeV]

If that is true, and as RDF Units are now under the Command and Control of PDF commanding officers, where is the fault?

Possibly Bde, possibly sub-unit

Amazing the difference being proactive, anticipating etc makes.

There is a brigade that considers getting someone attested within 6 months of application is good. There is another formation where aim is to have some as a least a 2* at that stage.

[DeV]

This is cobblers for a number of reasons. Very little if at all was done. Any official proposal for RDF to go overseas came with a "specialists only" and "resign from the RDF" caveat with it as PDF would refuse if RDF were officially put in charge i.e travelled as NCOs or Officers ( though this did not apply to MOs, you could keep your rank if you were a doc ) Although not overtly stated that was the line that was taken even for specialists. Since they knew we would all refuse they could then claim they had done their bit. This left a very bad taste and still does. 12 years on There has been no other official program. Ignore all the "my mate knows a guy who went" stuff. Take this from someone who did their overseas medical in the run up to that program and I know everyone who's been talked about in the pages above.

The above said, this was a very narrow band piece, the main reserve carried on (and still does).

Problems at the moment
1) continuing to treat RDF recruiting like PDF recruiting much quicker timelines
2) terrible timelines for medicals

Overseas if/when is only ever going to be very small numbers occasionally and for various reasons only likely to be of short duration.

The way it was done back then was completely wrong imho. All they need to do is look at a couple of sections of the Acts and take out the word “Permanent” to give a legislative basis for RDF overseas.

[batterysgt]

And NSR

The plan/model is there Bdes & units refuse to use it!

RDF SIC2 instrs? Only SIC2 Instrs can instruct career courses!

RDFRA and Sen RDF officers are pushing an open door, as I said it’s Bdes & units that are the issue

Yes RDF sic 2 instructors. Bgde's have run RDF modular sic2 courses and there are enough to an instructor pool from. Sorry I forgot about NSR. Which units, name and shame.

[Auldsod]

This is cobblers for a number of reasons. Very little if at all was done. Any official proposal for RDF to go overseas came with a "specialists only" and "resign from the RDF" caveat with it as PDF would refuse if RDF were officially put in charge i.e travelled as NCOs or Officers ( though this did not apply to MOs, you could keep your rank if you were a doc ) Although not overtly stated that was the line that was taken even for specialists. Since they knew we would all refuse they could then claim they had done their bit. This left a very bad taste and still does. 12 years on There has been no other official program. Ignore all the "my mate knows a guy who went" stuff. Take this from someone who did their overseas medical in the run up to that program and I know everyone who's been talked about in the pages above.

The above said, this was a very narrow band piece, the main reserve carried on (and still does).

Problems at the moment
1) continuing to treat RDF recruiting like PDF recruiting much quicker timelines
2) terrible timelines for medicals

I'm not aware of this arrangment? So someone would have had to resign from the RDF to go overseas? What would happen when they had to go back to their unit? Rejoin the RDF? There isn't provision to keep rank if you leave and rejoin per R9.

[DeV]

I'm not aware of this arrangment? So someone would have had to resign from the RDF to go overseas? What would happen when they had to go back to their unit? Rejoin the RDF? There isn't provision to keep rank if you leave and rejoin per R9.

It was to happen in 2009. The first group of RDF ago go overseas had started their form up.

You had to resign from RDF, enlisted in PDF, zero provision in law to allow people to rejoin RDF on return