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  1. #5926
    Lieutenant X-RayOne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    If I have 2000 lads waiting for a medical should I let a Doctor be a rifleman. That's a short debate in my mind.
    May be a short debate in your mind but in reality nothing you can do about said Dr. enlisting as a rifleman.

    I've seen plenty of people with very useful military applicable skills and qualifications, e.g. paramedics, engineers, HGV mechanics, IT specialists, etc. enlist in RDF (and FCA before). Not once was any of them ever told "infantry's not for you, go straight to Medics, CIS, etc." Just doesn't happen, and DF not interested in making it happen.

    All this also supposes that the same people want to use their specific skills in the DF. Many actually want to soldier in RDF instead of doing the day job on their day off.

    If however they want to use their skills in the military, then more power to them and it's a pity DF / DoD doesn't enable this.
    Fate whispers to the warrior, "There is a storm coming"

    And the warrior whispers back "I am the storm".

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  3. #5927
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    May be a short debate in your mind but in reality nothing you can do about said Dr. enlisting as a rifleman.
    Correct, not at the moment.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  4. #5928
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    See posts 5908 & 5912

    Your more likely to be able to recruit people for the specialist roles / use their specialist skills if they have skin in the game (ie they are already members), that is not to say that CMU shouldn't aim to recruit people who are already at least an EFR or Engr Coys shouldn't aim to recruit qualified tradespeople.

    Also look at where these specialist roles are (and a lack of Grat and/or milage), if you are a GP in Donegal or a IT programmer in Wexford.....

  5. #5929
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    Quote Originally Posted by morpheus View Post
    I know a fully qualified paramedic - who I was serving with in the RDF was to give a lecture and 1 day training course in some basic triage and how to treat gunshot wounds etc - at the final moment - a crusty old PDF medic from the medical corps told him to stand down, that he would give the lecture. I know a fair bit about first aid etc, but the heresy this lad spouted - Worst. Lecture. Ever

    More importantly, although he has trained military personnel in his paramedic capacity, his paramedic qualification - isnt recognised by the military.
    That scenario is not a DF phenomenon, it is typical of the PS whereby nothing positive to the organisation concerned is ever accepted from the talented/exprcd/qualified newbie etc no matter how relevant/useful on the usual managerial basis " I advise you what to do, not the other way round". Change only happens when sanctioned and effected from the top down .

    One unintended bonus/perk for any SR's who get overseas on UN missions will be the ability to join IUNVA hitherto unreachable for Reservists. Cant see this being a key motivating factor for SR's, more of a collateral consequence of such service.

  6. #5930
    BQMS Liachta Cultaca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morpheus View Post
    I know a fully qualified paramedic - who I was serving with in the RDF was to give a lecture and 1 day training course in some basic triage and how to treat gunshot wounds etc - at the final moment - a crusty old PDF medic from the medical corps told him to stand down, that he would give the lecture. I know a fair bit about first aid etc, but the heresy this lad spouted - Worst. Lecture. Ever

    More importantly, although he has trained military personnel in his paramedic capacity, his paramedic qualification - isnt recognised by the military.
    If he is a member of the Medical Corp then their qualification is recognised.... its called demarcation.
    I went into an Italian restaurant and ordered dessert and they gave me tiramisu and a blindfolded horse and I said No, I said mask a pony (mascarpone)

  7. #5931
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Trellheim did you get a copy of the thesis done by someone in your neck of the woods?

    To paraphrase:

    In the opinion of a senior CMU officer, a DF medic must do the Diploma in Military Medical Care (1 year course) or they aren't qualified to be a medic

    In the opinion of a PDF Engineer officer, there are no tradesmen/plant operators in the RDF who are in Engineer units.

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  9. #5932
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Trellheim did you get a copy of the thesis done by someone in your neck of the woods?

    To paraphrase:

    In the opinion of a senior CMU officer, a DF medic must do the Diploma in Military Medical Care (1 year course) or they aren't qualified to be a medic

    In the opinion of a PDF Engineer officer, there are no tradesmen/plant operators in the RDF who are in Engineer units.
    Contingencies aside sick parade has to be mundane/routine matters.

  10. #5933
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    FFS specialist reserve, we can't get recruits in the door, at this rate the RDF will die shortly, NSR took in zero recruits in 2016, hard to believe .

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  12. #5934
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    Quote Originally Posted by danno View Post
    Contingencies aside sick parade has to be mundane/routine matters.
    The DF rates a PDF member who has done this course (which includes qualifying as an EMT) more than a HSE AP

  13. #5935
    Lieutenant X-RayOne's Avatar
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    hmmm......probably a bit contraversial that suggestion.

    Firstly it's a lesser academic qualification than AP course.
    It would also be interesting to see if PHECC will now include Mil Medic on its list of practitioners, and if so, above or below AP? That would affect if they could practice outside DF roles.

    They do get a good occupational medicine module that AP's don't get. Giving them a broader understanding and scope for audiograms, eye tests, urine analysis, etc. The more routine day to day medical ailments and tests people get. However, not sure if they will have same clinical intervention skills as APs e.g. intubation, or get as much hospital placements in aneasthetics, etc.

    Also, within the DF, what of the AP's currently practicing? And older vintages,if there are any left, of EMT's, 3* medics, etc. Are they all not classed as medics now?
    Fate whispers to the warrior, "There is a storm coming"

    And the warrior whispers back "I am the storm".

  14. #5936
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liachta Cultaca View Post
    If he is a member of the Medical Corp then their qualification is recognised.... its called demarcation.
    no - he is not medical corps and decided recently, after 14 years, to hang up his beret in frustration as he cant even get a trx to medics due to our own units lack of numbers and a Bn CO who is not willing to lose him or his internally useful but internally unrecognised skill set, in a transfer. ultimately they will lose him anyway in next 3 months and at this stage i'm considering it myself - its soul destroying if you aren't in an occupied barracks and have a 50 minute journey each way 1 night a week and cannot get a transfer either.
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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  16. #5937
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by X-RayOne View Post
    hmmm......probably a bit contraversial that suggestion.

    Firstly it's a lesser academic qualification than AP course.
    It would also be interesting to see if PHECC will now include Mil Medic on its list of practitioners, and if so, above or below AP? That would affect if they could practice outside DF roles.

    They do get a good occupational medicine module that AP's don't get. Giving them a broader understanding and scope for audiograms, eye tests, urine analysis, etc. The more routine day to day medical ailments and tests people get. However, not sure if they will have same clinical intervention skills as APs e.g. intubation, or get as much hospital placements in aneasthetics, etc.

    Also, within the DF, what of the AP's currently practicing? And older vintages,if there are any left, of EMT's, 3* medics, etc. Are they all not classed as medics now?
    The Diploma in Military Medicine is an EMT course with DF specific bits added on (TCCC, pre-MED's (as you say), admin, LOAC, CBRN etc etc). PHECC recognises it as EMT.

    The MFR courses are recognised as CFR / EFR (depending on modules completed).

  17. #5938
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    In the opinion of a senior CMU officer, a DF medic must do the Diploma in Military Medical Care (1 year course) or they aren't qualified to be a medic

    In the opinion of a PDF Engineer officer, there are no tradesmen/plant operators in the RDF who are in Engineer units.
    1. DF Medic means what in this context - does it mean you are allowed to play with the toys in the MAP ; you prob still can't do disposals/MND/etc/etc/etc anyway so what's the relevance .

    2. As for engineers that's a narrow definition but so what ?

    Recruitment is there and IS happening I got a report last night for my formation and it looks OK . NSR medicals should be allowed locally, making people travel is ridiculous.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  18. #5939
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    If the DF are serious about wanting to utilize RDF skill sets what is needed (and is already underway as I understand)
    1. Gap Analysis between skills the PDF don't have and the RDF do.
    2. Parity Analysis of skill both PDF and RDF share.
    This is an fairly involved task though.

    Doctors are straight forward, you either have the accreditation and are a doctor or not.
    Engineers, not so as the term is unregulated. Any cowboy with a screwdriver or a laptop can claim to be an engineer of sorts.
    accreditation supplemented by experience needs to be looked at almost on a case by case basis, which is time consuming.
    I imagine it's similar for many other relevant fields.
    Scheduled fun will commence at 1900Hrs.
    Punishment beatings will continue until moral improves.

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  20. #5940
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AC182 View Post
    If the DF are serious about wanting to utilize RDF skill sets what is needed (and is already underway as I understand)
    1. Gap Analysis between skills the PDF don't have and the RDF do.
    2. Parity Analysis of skill both PDF and RDF share.
    This is an fairly involved task though.

    Doctors are straight forward, you either have the accreditation and are a doctor or not.
    Engineers, not so as the term is unregulated. Any cowboy with a screwdriver or a laptop can claim to be an engineer of sorts.
    accreditation supplemented by experience needs to be looked at almost on a case by case basis, which is time consuming.
    I imagine it's similar for many other relevant fields.
    And is done in many other militaries so why not us.
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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  22. #5941
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    1. DF Medic means what in this context - does it mean you are allowed to play with the toys in the MAP ; you prob still can't do disposals/MND/etc/etc/etc anyway so what's the relevance .
    Well target people who are at least EMTs, modularise the course and bobs your uncle.

    I know the were RDF medics in the East who were qualified to conduct audiograms (DF course) probably about 8-10 years ago, they aren't even recognising their qualifications!

    2. As for engineers that's a narrow definition but so what ?.
    if they have served their time, have their safe pass, have their tickets .....

  23. #5942
    BQMS Liachta Cultaca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post

    I know the were RDF medics in the East who were qualified to conduct audiograms (DF course) probably about 8-10 years ago, they aren't even recognising their qualifications!
    Not true.
    I went into an Italian restaurant and ordered dessert and they gave me tiramisu and a blindfolded horse and I said No, I said mask a pony (mascarpone)

  24. #5943
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    Well target people who are at least EMTs, modularise the course and bobs your uncle.
    Repeat my question. So what ? What role do you want them to serve ? Why does it matter if they recognize it or not - I ask again - do you get to sit in the MAP and do fk-all ?

    As for engineers again same question . SKill Survey's done.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  25. #5944
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    On a not unrelated note, my e-Vetting for child protection in my sports club was submitted to AGS on 28th December and received back 6th January.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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  27. #5945
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liachta Cultaca View Post
    Not true.
    So are they being recognised?

    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    Repeat my question. So what ? What role do you want them to serve ? Why does it matter if they recognize it or not - I ask again - do you get to sit in the MAP and do fk-all ?

    As for engineers again same question . SKill Survey's done.
    CMU - cover for exercises, range practices, ops, duties.

    Pre-meds for enlistments and serving personnel (within their capabilities eg if they have done audio module but not spirometer).

    Engineers- exercises, ATCA, etc


    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    On a not unrelated note, my e-Vetting for child protection in my sports club was submitted to AGS on 28th December and received back 6th January.
    According to ACOS the issue (in the DF) is security clearance as opposed to Garda Clearance. Not sure if AGS, G2 or J2 do it

  28. #5946
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    On a not unrelated note, my e-Vetting for child protection in my sports club was submitted to AGS on 28th December and received back 6th January.
    That would be in line with the 5 day turnaround which came in last May or so. However applicants for employers/organisations which are not online with the vetting unit still fall to be done manually and take 5 weeks plus.

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  30. #5947
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    Repeat my question. So what ? What role do you want them to serve ? Why does it matter if they recognize it or not - I ask again - do you get to sit in the MAP and do fk-all ?

    As for engineers again same question . SKill Survey's done.
    There are a couple of issues at play with skillsets. A fair few appear to be EMT'S etc and you will get HGV drivers etc. Does this mean these , duly verified etc , get to move to CS and CSS units and stop being riflemen.
    Most likely the plan is to harness skills which the DF do not produce enough of /cannot retain or not at all and use same to expand the operational envelope of the DF or at least to avoid glass ceilings the biggest one of which curtails the operational ability of the DF being PDF fitness levels.

  31. #5948
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    What about RDF personnel in the CMU with PHECC qualifications?

    All corps need rigid drivers not just TVM Corps

  32. #5949
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    There are a couple of issues at play with skillsets. A fair few appear to be EMT'S etc and you will get HGV drivers etc. Does this mean these , duly verified etc , get to move to CS and CSS units and stop being riflemen.
    Most likely the plan is to harness skills which the DF do not produce enough of /cannot retain or not at all and use same to expand the operational envelope of the DF or at least to avoid glass ceilings the biggest one of which curtails the operational ability of the DF being PDF fitness levels.
    Great points. But it is no use having the skillsets unless there is a benefit to the DF beyond the RDF. There is zero point unless some operational capability is enhanced. For 99% of things that means bums on seats for a specific time period . Most jobs in the DF require someone to be present.

    Take Cooks, HACCP and city and guilds/fetac or whatever fully qualified for example. Having the Cook on strength is great but unless they're in there doing there job nobody benefits. My job can a lot of times be done from home or doesn't require a physical presence but a Cook - they're in the kitchen with defined outputs or a lot of things stop happening.

    So even with reserve specialists staffing an org chart little point unless you can use them for a specific time.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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  34. #5950
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Which is why I believe the SR is a silly idea

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