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  • Originally posted by trellheim View Post
    I'm watching my locals do predeployment training rn and it would not be possible to do it unless on ftt in the months leading up
    You'd be surely looking at 9-10 months full time at least.

    Comment


    • Realistic it (a 3-12 month deployment plus the required pre (and pre pre) deployment training and leave afterwards) would be impossible except if you are unemployed/take an extended leave of absence and have an extremely understanding work (and family)

      As I say the most likely RDF personnel going overseas would be for an exercise, a course, support overseas ops for a few weeks etc

      Comment


      • Originally posted by batterysgt View Post
        RDF should be trained at the same level as PDF. Look at the barracks during normal working hours, very few are carrying section attacks etc, most are in the gym l, office, duty or resting off. RDF do the same training, albeit over a long period and some would easily fill a 3* post overseas. Dont the NSR go on patrols with the navy and drive their boats, it should be similar to overseas.
        The one word in the Military that makes NCO's dicks itch. "Should".

        RDF SHOULD be trained to the same level as PDF. But they are NOT. Simple as. They can't be. Not their fault . It is all about time and total immersion in Military standards and socialisation. RDF are just not at that level. Two weeks a year, a few weekends and 2 hours a week still doesn't scratch the surface. The PDF and RDF mindset are totally different which is a result of training.RDF,no matter how devoted to the DF they are, still think like civilians.Which can bring something extra to the party but in general is not something the DF likes in it's Personnel.

        Simply put an RDF Infantry 3* Pte is NOT at the same level of training as a PDF 3* and would struggle to carry out all tasks assigned and to have the same level of discipline expected by a PDF 3* Overseas. I am not saying this as a "Diss" on the RDF. Simply saying it as I see it based on 29 years experience both Regular and reserve.
        "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by apod View Post
          The one word in the Military that makes NCO's dicks itch. "Should".

          RDF SHOULD be trained to the same level as PDF. But they are NOT. Simple as. They can't be. Not their fault . It is all about time and total immersion in Military standards and socialisation. RDF are just not at that level. Two weeks a year, a few weekends and 2 hours a week still doesn't scratch the surface. The PDF and RDF mindset are totally different which is a result of training.RDF,no matter how devoted to the DF they are, still think like civilians.Which can bring something extra to the party but in general is not something the DF likes in it's Personnel.

          Simply put an RDF Infantry 3* Pte is NOT at the same level of training as a PDF 3* and would struggle to carry out all tasks assigned and to have the same level of discipline expected by a PDF 3* Overseas. I am not saying this as a "Diss" on the RDF. Simply saying it as I see it based on 29 years experience both Regular and reserve.
          2 important things to add

          A RDF 3* hasn’t been trained in all the subjects his PDF counterpart is

          Also they don’t get as much practice at it (although on at least some of them they are expected to meet the same standards)

          Comment


          • Originally posted by DeV View Post
            2 important things to add

            A RDF 3* hasn’t been trained in all the subjects his PDF counterpart is

            Also they don’t get as much practice at it (although on at least some of them they are expected to meet the same standards)

            Agreed to a certain point but basic competancy at those subjects is just literally stepping in the door. I can pass my TOETs and the same range as a PDF soldier but that's literally just to qualify mesafe to operate a weapon for a year. It's exercise after exercise that makes you competent, not just meeting the standards on whatever course.

            What impressed me when working with regular NS personnel was not how competent they are at the basic foundational aspects of their roles (they're a given), it's the sheer breath and depth of knowledge that personnel exhibited on the peripheral tasks important to their role but possibly not on a syllabus. This held whether they were an AB with two years service or a PO with fifteen. We would be coming off three days of intense evolutions and I'd feel I was starting to approach the most basic level of competency and then then the AB I was shadowing (one year in) would pull apart and service a 20mm like it was made out of lego.


            Originally posted by apod View Post
            The one word in the Military that makes NCO's dicks itch. "Should".

            RDF SHOULD be trained to the same level as PDF. But they are NOT. Simple as. They can't be. Not their fault . It is all about time and total immersion in Military standards and socialisation. RDF are just not at that level. Two weeks a year, a few weekends and 2 hours a week still doesn't scratch the surface. The PDF and RDF mindset are totally different which is a result of training.RDF,no matter how devoted to the DF they are, still think like civilians.Which can bring something extra to the party but in general is not something the DF likes in it's Personnel.

            Simply put an RDF Infantry 3* Pte is NOT at the same level of training as a PDF 3* and would struggle to carry out all tasks assigned and to have the same level of discipline expected by a PDF 3* Overseas. I am not saying this as a "Diss" on the RDF. Simply saying it as I see it based on 29 years experience both Regular and reserve.
            Tough to hear for some but very very true.

            Comment


            • I would hope the the Commission of Defence will tackle the whole issue of the "Reserves" as it alongside pay & conditions is one of the biggest areas of shame in relation to the DF. Generations have dedicated their time to the reserves and yet for decades the reserves have been looked down up and mistreated. To be blunt on the other-side, the fundamental litmus test of an Army reserve is; "can it be deployed?" If the answer is no, then it is not fit for purpose. That is the blunt answer.

              We all look with envy across the big pond and see the the Yanks manage to not only deploy their Army Reserve but also their Army National Guard to places like Iraq and Afghanistan. But we need not look so far, Norway not only manages to deploy reservists but also its Home Guard. So it can be done. If we want a functioning reserve force then it need to be capable of being deployed, specialist and non-specialist. That means it needs to give the members of the reserve, first and foremost employment protection as it is by definition a part-time force. It needs to be given a functioning structure that it can work within as a part-time force, having to drive across 3 counties to go on parade is crazy for such an organisation. It needs to be resourced so that it can train and function as a proper reserve.

              One last point, IMHO members of the Oireachtas should be able to continue to serve in the reserves.

              Comment


              • There was a moment, in the early 2000s when those of us still in the reserve saw light on the horizon. We were being used as enemy for Brigade level PDF exercises. We were getting the chance to learn the drills, and watch the pros carry them out. The networking that came with it was also a huge advantage, if we acted professionally the PDF would in turn realise we were more than "weekend soldiers".
                The State's reaction to the Foot and Mouth outbreak put paid to that. The RDF were sidelined, unable to train, as if we were a local under 12s hurling team. The PDF were stretched to the last trying to cover overseas commitment as well as extra ATCA duties at home. The RDF were never requested, no matter how willing we were to assist. The Civil Defence were very busy at the same time, sealing off public parks and amenities. I clearly remember myself and other members of my unit used to meet up on Parade nights in a local park for a kickaround to stay active (the park attendant was a member of the unit). At the same time senior members of the RDF were heavily involved in bringing the bones of a dead nun, with full ceremony, around the country. Priorities lads?
                NOBODY in either government or authority considered any form of reserve mobilisation. RDFRIP happened shortly after, seeing the local units amalgamated (downsized) and the constructive dismissal of many members nationally. (In a manner and method later used to the same effect on the PDF).
                For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                Comment


                • Tbh lads id be more interested in getting the numbers back up. Sort out recruitment and retention 1st before we start worrying about overseas
                  We cant even train at the minute due to restrictions.
                  So if we can sort out recruitment ect then worry about overseas.
                  Im sure the PDF would be glad of a break if we did a few duties for them to help with workload so even that would be a start.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by koppiteal View Post
                    Tbh lads id be more interested in getting the numbers back up. Sort out recruitment and retention 1st before we start worrying about overseas
                    We cant even train at the minute due to restrictions.
                    So if we can sort out recruitment ect then worry about overseas.
                    Im sure the PDF would be glad of a break if we did a few duties for them to help with workload so even that would be a start.
                    Priorities for me:

                    1. Recruitment - Applications are coming, but the time it takes to turn around application to intake session (fitness and interview), to being sworn in is ridiculous
                    2. Training - It's 2020, outside of the current pandemic, education has started to go remote with tools like Blackboard and Moodle being used at third level for coming up on two decades, lets start to use it. The security issue of it is not insurmountable, a little vision and willingness to modernise will enable us to transform. This is the year the DF started a podcast ffs
                    3. Broader Skills - Our colleagues in the Civil Defence have been about a million times more useful than the RDF since March. The RDF combat Arms going overseas is a pipe dream for now, there's too many PDF lads and ladies who need overseas for their career, and as APOD said, the skill gap is too great. Useful skills in the last six months would have been more RDF drives for patient transfers and the ability to plug holes in units for duties. It's not glamorous, but it's the day to day stuff that needs to happen.
                    4. Utilize Reservists Civilian Skills - The RDF is an amazing organisation if you think about it. You've people from all walks of life in Civvy street, with a host of skills that the PDF might not have at present, but might be in need of, and I'm talking in Ireland. If an RDF Private is a Network engineer, why isn't he asked to and potentially seconded to CIS to help out with a project, if a Cav Trooper happens to be a Mechanic, why isn't he asked can he help at a weekend to get a broken down GS or FFR repaired and back on the road.
                    5. A solid 5 year plan - In the UK, the Army Reserve is a utilised element of Defence. What is different there than here? A commitment of 19 or 27 days a year, with enlisted training being 4 weekends and 16 days training for basic, followed by specialist training which is usually around two weeks. I think that sets a standard to aim off for, lets set a plan out, and work to that basis over 5 years.

                    Maybe this is the ramblings of a mad man who's spent too many years banging my head off the wall, but something HAS TO CHANGE, or else all that will change is the average age will continue to grow until the current crop of reserves ages out.
                    What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by koppiteal View Post
                      Tbh lads id be more interested in getting the numbers back up. Sort out recruitment and retention 1st before we start worrying about overseas
                      We cant even train at the minute due to restrictions.
                      So if we can sort out recruitment ect then worry about overseas.
                      Im sure the PDF would be glad of a break if we did a few duties for them to help with workload so even that would be a start.
                      Spot on with the above. Overseas if possible would only be for a limited few anyway. Hit the big ticket items like recruitment and retention first, do them well and you never know - we might build up enough capital for the overseas yet.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by koppiteal View Post
                        Tbh lads id be more interested in getting the numbers back up. Sort out recruitment and retention 1st before we start worrying about overseas
                        We cant even train at the minute due to restrictions.
                        So if we can sort out recruitment ect then worry about overseas.
                        Im sure the PDF would be glad of a break if we did a few duties for them to help with workload so even that would be a start.
                        No problem at all doing duties so long as you can work around the very necessary precautions

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by ODIN View Post
                          Priorities for me:

                          1. Recruitment - Applications are coming, but the time it takes to turn around application to intake session (fitness and interview), to being sworn in is ridiculous
                          2. Training - It's 2020, outside of the current pandemic, education has started to go remote with tools like Blackboard and Moodle being used at third level for coming up on two decades, lets start to use it. The security issue of it is not insurmountable, a little vision and willingness to modernise will enable us to transform. This is the year the DF started a podcast ffs
                          3. Broader Skills - Our colleagues in the Civil Defence have been about a million times more useful than the RDF since March. The RDF combat Arms going overseas is a pipe dream for now, there's too many PDF lads and ladies who need overseas for their career, and as APOD said, the skill gap is too great. Useful skills in the last six months would have been more RDF drives for patient transfers and the ability to plug holes in units for duties. It's not glamorous, but it's the day to day stuff that needs to happen.
                          4. Utilize Reservists Civilian Skills - The RDF is an amazing organisation if you think about it. You've people from all walks of life in Civvy street, with a host of skills that the PDF might not have at present, but might be in need of, and I'm talking in Ireland. If an RDF Private is a Network engineer, why isn't he asked to and potentially seconded to CIS to help out with a project, if a Cav Trooper happens to be a Mechanic, why isn't he asked can he help at a weekend to get a broken down GS or FFR repaired and back on the road.
                          5. A solid 5 year plan - In the UK, the Army Reserve is a utilised element of Defence. What is different there than here? A commitment of 19 or 27 days a year, with enlisted training being 4 weekends and 16 days training for basic, followed by specialist training which is usually around two weeks. I think that sets a standard to aim off for, lets set a plan out, and work to that basis over 5 years.

                          Maybe this is the ramblings of a mad man who's spent too many years banging my head off the wall, but something HAS TO CHANGE, or else all that will change is the average age will continue to grow until the current crop of reserves ages out.
                          On 1

                          A lot of that is people taking responsibility

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                            On 1

                            A lot of that is people taking responsibility
                            It is down to every unit, in my opinion, to have in house Recruit Liaison Officers with training completed. Reservists need to take ownership of this as much as possible.
                            What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by ODIN View Post
                              It is down to every unit, in my opinion, to have in house Recruit Liaison Officers with training completed. Reservists need to take ownership of this as much as possible.
                              And plan ahead

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by ODIN View Post
                                Priorities for me:

                                1. Recruitment - Applications are coming, but the time it takes to turn around application to intake session (fitness and interview), to being sworn in is ridiculous
                                2. Training - It's 2020, outside of the current pandemic, education has started to go remote with tools like Blackboard and Moodle being used at third level for coming up on two decades, lets start to use it. The security issue of it is not insurmountable, a little vision and willingness to modernise will enable us to transform. This is the year the DF started a podcast ffs
                                3. Broader Skills - Our colleagues in the Civil Defence have been about a million times more useful than the RDF since March. The RDF combat Arms going overseas is a pipe dream for now, there's too many PDF lads and ladies who need overseas for their career, and as APOD said, the skill gap is too great. Useful skills in the last six months would have been more RDF drives for patient transfers and the ability to plug holes in units for duties. It's not glamorous, but it's the day to day stuff that needs to happen.
                                4. Utilize Reservists Civilian Skills - The RDF is an amazing organisation if you think about it. You've people from all walks of life in Civvy street, with a host of skills that the PDF might not have at present, but might be in need of, and I'm talking in Ireland. If an RDF Private is a Network engineer, why isn't he asked to and potentially seconded to CIS to help out with a project, if a Cav Trooper happens to be a Mechanic, why isn't he asked can he help at a weekend to get a broken down GS or FFR repaired and back on the road.
                                5. A solid 5 year plan - In the UK, the Army Reserve is a utilised element of Defence. What is different there than here? A commitment of 19 or 27 days a year, with enlisted training being 4 weekends and 16 days training for basic, followed by specialist training which is usually around two weeks. I think that sets a standard to aim off for, lets set a plan out, and work to that basis over 5 years.

                                Maybe this is the ramblings of a mad man who's spent too many years banging my head off the wall, but something HAS TO CHANGE, or else all that will change is the average age will continue to grow until the current crop of reserves ages out.
                                Great points here but there is a another big between PDF and RDF and that can be a lack of understanding of how the two different world's operate and their respective commitments.

                                Take point 4. Cav trooper is a mechanic. Cav trooper is asked to help. He/she might be asked to help at weekend but it is far more likely that they would be asked to help during the week when workshop is open and procedures and protocols can be followed.

                                Cav troopers suggests that they complete work on a Saturday morning and this is ridiculous to the PDF mechanic as it's their weekend off.
                                PDF suggests that Cav trooper comes in on a Tuesday at 11 to look at it and this is ridiculous to him/her as they have only a finite amount leave which they already use quite a lot of to facilitate their service on courses etc.

                                Just a culture shock. Now I know there exceptions. There are RDF members who have used up so much leave it's no doubt caused issue for their loved ones and I know of PDF who have worked weekends essentially for nothing to help out the reserve.
                                Last edited by Auldsod; 28 September 2020, 18:41.

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