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  1. #7326
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batterysgt View Post
    Than what does the infantry man do! I have skill sets that's can be used by the PDF when they need someone to go but why not infantry, it cant just be us and them, that's my point. Do the numbers of specialists v infantry, artillery, cavalry. How many trained cooks does the AR have? The detail will really be interesting and of course so will the KPIs and application process, no more gp medicals etc etc. Believe me I'm all for it, I just really feel that if not applied equally across the RDF then we will loose more.
    This is about a lot more than overseas (as in ops).

    The DF has lots of PDF infantry (on a paper at least) who have to go overseas in order to get an extension of service or promotion. Who is to say that an infantry man who is an engineer, cyber ninja etc can’t be deployed?

  2. #7327
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    Than what does the infantry man do! I have skill sets that's can be used by the PDF when they need someone to go but why not infantry, it cant just be us and them, that's my point. Do the numbers of specialists v infantry, artillery, cavalry. How many trained cooks does the AR have? The detail will really be interesting and of course so will the KPIs and application process, no more gp medicals etc etc. Believe me I'm all for it, I just really feel that if not applied equally across the RDF then we will loose more.
    As Dev says. We are reservists. There to augment. Do you honestly think the PDF will have a problem filling the numbers for a UN deployment of a "standard" mech infantry company from the ranks of the PDF ? Sit back and actually think about that. Even if one formation couldnt fill the numbers another formation would fill in the blank files. Thats not us and them , its reality and how is that "not applied equally across the RDF ?"


    If there's a vacancy for a Medical officer and there's no-one to go from the PDF, a qualified RDF man can perhaps apply. What is the issue there ? There will be enough nay-saying ( from direct personal experience back in 2008) to sink this most likely in any event.

    For example what specialist skills do you have that the PDF don't have in quantity ? The minister has already said its for specialists ..... ( in the Dail Committee on Thursday the minister said "including the question of deploying members of the Reserve Defence Force with specialist skills on overseas missions" ) and has been consistent on this point repeatedly so if you're not thinking along those lines then I am not sure what to tell you.

    As for the wider question of what is the actual purpose of RDF infantry after very long service (30 years) in the Infantry and now elsewhere its an excellent question as to what the serious role of RDF combat arm corps should be
    Last edited by trellheim; 28th November 2020 at 20:46.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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  4. #7328
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    Some of my skills inc IT, management and governance, not to mention 22yrs AR. But if I'm infantry or artillery etc and not being commissioned can I fill the role of a Lt in CIS if that is where the shortage is. The skills above are my civilian set.

  5. #7329
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    Some of my skills inc IT, management and governance, not to mention 22yrs AR. But if I'm infantry or artillery etc and not being commissioned can I fill the role of a Lt in CIS if that is where the shortage is. The skills above are my civilian set.
    My example above : trip to Romania - Cyber. I don't think the DF will commission you just like that though. The question would get asked - why arent you in CIS now then
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  6. #7330
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    Civilian skillsets are only part of the equation.

    It is the conversion of those skillsets into deployable skillsets that is the challenge. E.g. it takes 18-24 months to convert a degree in engineering into a combat engineer or EOD. It takes over 12 months to convert a degree in a relevant field into a minimum standard CIS officer.

    Just having a civilian skillset is a starting point. Not an end point

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  8. #7331
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    No I'm not in a cis unit, to far away to make that commute work.

  9. #7332
    Sergeant Major Auldsod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantasia View Post
    Civilian skillsets are only part of the equation.

    It is the conversion of those skillsets into deployable skillsets that is the challenge. E.g. it takes 18-24 months to convert a degree in engineering into a combat engineer or EOD. It takes over 12 months to convert a degree in a relevant field into a minimum standard CIS officer.

    Just having a civilian skillset is a starting point. Not an end point
    I was thinking exaclty the same thing. Far more likely and logical to be an NCO specialist if utilised rather than an officer in a leadership role.

  10. #7333
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batterysgt View Post
    Some of my skills inc IT, management and governance, not to mention 22yrs AR. But if I'm infantry or artillery etc and not being commissioned can I fill the role of a Lt in CIS if that is where the shortage is. The skills above are my civilian set.
    Because the DF is only short of tech officers and NCOs have no tech qualifications???

    I know of a number of RDF privates using their tech civvy skills on a regular basis to improve the lot of the DF

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  12. #7334
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantasia View Post
    Civilian skillsets are only part of the equation.

    It is the conversion of those skillsets into deployable skillsets that is the challenge. E.g. it takes 18-24 months to convert a degree in engineering into a combat engineer or EOD. It takes over 12 months to convert a degree in a relevant field into a minimum standard CIS officer.

    Just having a civilian skillset is a starting point. Not an end point
    And that is a issue, not just for overseas but at home to fill an appointment!

    Potentially some of it may have already been covered when the new commissioned officer was in that corps (if from that corps) also if they will bring experience from the relevant civvy employment (but obviously that isn’t going include the military elements).

    Has to be recognised that there are currently RDF doing jobs in the DF at home (in uniform that the PDF have requested RDF support because they don’t have the skills at all)

    Personally I think the most likely is that we will see RDF specialists deployed to complete a specific project if sent overseas operation for a short period (say an upgrade, some building work, etc etc).

    Have repeat it again that this change is about a lot more on overseas ops

  13. #7335
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    Flexibility is indeed key but as Fantasia points out every Corps has the relevant knowledge/price of entry. In some it is relatively easy to slot in (Medical Officer and even then rolleyes ) in others not so


    To spin it on its head look at all the personnel deployed overseas right now. Here ( minister answered this 4 Nov 2020) https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2020-11-17a.31 is where we are overseas right now. Where would you fit in ? Ignore UNDOF and UNIFIL for the reasons I gave above.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

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  14. #7336
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    Flexibility is indeed key but as Fantasia points out every Corps has the relevant knowledge/price of entry. In some it is relatively easy to slot in (Medical Officer and even then rolleyes ) in others not so


    To spin it on its head look at all the personnel deployed overseas right now. Here ( minister answered this 4 Nov 2020) https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2020-11-17a.31 is where we are overseas right now. Where would you fit in ? Ignore UNDOF and UNIFIL for the reasons I gave above.
    If RDF officers suddenly started taking all of the non troop missions there would be hell to pay! Observer missions require a minimum rank of Captain, as dictated by the UN, and they are seen as a reward and are hard come by.

    The problem is that the less desireable appointments require the greatest skillsets and carry the greatest risks.

    A reservist could easily drive around the roads of South Lebanon as a member of an infantry patrol. When everything goes right, there is not much to do. The problem comes when the SHTF and it goes from zero to 90 in 5 seconds and you need to be able to draw on skillsets.

    As it stands, I do not see any route to overseas for RDF. The RDF skillsets are just not in the places where the PDF have difficulties.

    Someone having a niche skillset that helps out in a specific circumstance is a million miles removed from being employable to fill a serial on an R&C. They may be able to travel as a work party for a week or 2 to address something, but a 6 month deployment is not on the cards from what I can see

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  16. #7337
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    Just have to wait until the detail is published and hope that I will be eligible to apply, no difficulty taking the time off work to it. But needs to be in the next 4years or I'm to old.

  17. #7338
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantasia View Post
    If RDF officers suddenly started taking all of the non troop missions there would be hell to pay! Observer missions require a minimum rank of Captain, as dictated by the UN, and they are seen as a reward and are hard come by.

    The problem is that the less desireable appointments require the greatest skillsets and carry the greatest risks.

    A reservist could easily drive around the roads of South Lebanon as a member of an infantry patrol. When everything goes right, there is not much to do. The problem comes when the SHTF and it goes from zero to 90 in 5 seconds and you need to be able to draw on skillsets.
    Also UNMO deployments are generally 12 months. In some cases, UNMO could be a lot more hazardous.

    And in a SHTF scenario that doesn’t mean the HQ personnel are immune to risk

    As it stands, I do not see any route to overseas for RDF. The RDF skillsets are just not in the places where the PDF have difficulties.

    Someone having a niche skillset that helps out in a specific circumstance is a million miles removed from being employable to fill a serial on an R&C. They may be able to travel as a work party for a week or 2 to address something, but a 6 month deployment is not on the cards from what I can see
    I can tell you there most definitely is. In some cases the RDF are the SMEs as they don’t exist in the PDF at all

  18. #7339
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Also UNMO deployments are generally 12 months. In some cases, UNMO could be a lot more hazardous.

    And in a SHTF scenario that doesn’t mean the HQ personnel are immune to risk



    I can tell you there most definitely is. In some cases the RDF are the SMEs as they don’t exist in the PDF at all
    Very few UNMO deployments, outside of UNTSO are for 12 months.

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  20. #7340
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantasia View Post
    Very few UNMO deployments, outside of UNTSO are for 12 months.
    Stand corrected

  21. #7341
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    From RDFRA Facebook page a few days ago:

    Significant developments, from a Reserve Defence Force perspective, have occurred today in the Oireachtas. Cathal Berry TD’s section of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2020 – that would permit members of the RDF to serve overseas for the activities outlined in the Defence (Amendment) Act 2006 – has been superseded by a new proposal from the Minister for Defence, Simon Coveney TD.

    The Minister is now proposing to amend both the Defence (Amendment) Act 2006 – which would allow members of the RDF to serve overseas in a variety of non-UN mission circumstances – as well as the Defence (Amendment) Act 1960, which does cover UN missions. In summary, the Minister’s new proposal will potentially open up the full range of overseas activities to members of the RDF.

    While this is still a developing situation, #RDFRA would like to stress that:

    1. Overseas service will be for those reservists who are identified as having desired qualifications/skillsets for a particular appointment or role.

    2. Such reservists as may go overseas will do so on a voluntary basis (i.e. reservists will not be compelled to go).

    3. While this is an excellent development for the RDF, RDFRA firmly support a ‘PDF-first’ policy for overseas service, as such service is fundamentally linked to a PDF member's income potential and career progression. Therefore, reservists should primarily be utilised overseas if they: (1) possess a required specialist qualification that simply does not exist within the PDF; (2) if they possess a required qualification that does exist within the PDF, but insufficient members of the PDF possessing this qualification have requested to go on the mission (i.e. the PDF have ‘first refusal’ for places on the mission); or (3) if the overseas activity is totally Reserve-specific and would not have involved members of the PDF anyway, or if RDF involvment would in no way prohibit similar involvement by the PDF (i.e. an international military competition, an international Reserve forces conference, an international training course that can only be attended by international Reserve forces or on which there are places for both Regular and Reserve elements, etc.)

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  23. #7342
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    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40192794.html

    Perhaps these could be crewed by NSR?

  24. #7343
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    Quote Originally Posted by batterysgt View Post
    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40192794.html

    Perhaps these could be crewed by NSR?
    Is there enough qualified NSR to crew them? At the size mentioned they will need a lot more than someone with a yachtmaster qualification.
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  26. #7344
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    Maybe that's true, is there different levels of yacht master? 10m, 30m 100m+??

  27. #7345
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    Yacht master runs out at 24m.
    As naval vessels these require crew experienced in all areas of naval patrolling, particularly the fisheries, customs and immigration legislation, in addition to the ability to act as a watchkeeping officer. At present I can think of 2 people in the entire NSR capable of this.
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  28. #7346
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    Only two. I really thought there was more than that. They would appear to be at sea and very active ( last 6 months not so). So lead me to that alot more had quals. My mistake.

  29. #7347
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    Quote Originally Posted by batterysgt View Post
    Only two. I really thought there was more than that. They would appear to be at sea and very active ( last 6 months not so). So lead me to that alot more had quals. My mistake.
    When you say "at sea" do you mean aboard a naval vessel being shadowed at every move by their PDF colleagues, or tootling around Dublin bay, Cork Harbour or the Shannon Estuary on RHIBs?
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
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    German 1: That is the bad news.

  30. #7348
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    These are full-time manned requirements. Complete opposite of Reserve taskings. In the abstract an RDF man currently if qualified can perform almost any job.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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  32. #7349
    Sergeant Major Auldsod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    When you say "at sea" do you mean aboard a naval vessel being shadowed at every move by their PDF colleagues, or tootling around Dublin bay, Cork Harbour or the Shannon Estuary on RHIBs?
    Quite a few man days being spent at sea this year by NSR (on ships). Define tootling?

  33. #7350
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    Will these delay NSR replacement boats?

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