Thanks Thanks:  7
Likes Likes:  45
Dislikes Dislikes:  0
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 28
  1. #1
    Recruit Poiuyt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    South East
    Posts
    348
    Post Thanks / Like

    Ireland has lowest government expenditure on defence to GDP in EU: Eurostat

    Eurostat, the EU equivalent of the CSO, has released figures for Government Spending on Defence across the EU.

    Irelands has 0.3% expenditure to GDP, the lowest in the EU by far. The next nearest low spender is Malta, with 0.5%. Latvia is the highest at 2.1%.

    https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/pr...%2Feurostat%2F


  2. Thanks Flamingo thanked for this post
  3. #2
    Commander in Chief
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    5,785
    Post Thanks / Like
    Less than MALTA!
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  4. Likes RoyalGreenJacket liked this post
  5. #3
    Sergeant madmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    put out to pasture
    Posts
    624
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    Less than MALTA!
    they train their officer here so they can see how not to run a defence force
    Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.

  6. #4
    Hostage Flamingo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Over the water
    Posts
    4,068
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by madmark View Post
    they train their officer here so they can see how not to run a defence force
    That’s why their spend is higher - it’s the cost of the rent they have to pay in Kildare...
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

  7. #5
    Chief Casey Ryback
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    1,271
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    Less than MALTA!
    That's it then , no more donating ships to them , they can afford their own.
    Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

  8. Likes CTU, Orion liked this post
  9. #6
    Lieutenant EUFighter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    1,280
    Post Thanks / Like
    This is nothing new, there will be the excuse that GDP gives a false impression, but even with the percentage of GNI it is not any better. For years the trend has been one way at a constant rate and that is down. If we go back to the early 90's to see the 1.2% value. Remember those days when we were a poor nation!

  10. #7
    Captain
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    1,714
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    This is nothing new, there will be the excuse that GDP gives a false impression, but even with the percentage of GNI it is not any better. For years the trend has been one way at a constant rate and that is down. If we go back to the early 90's to see the 1.2% value. Remember those days when we were a poor nation!
    And managed to have what 16K in service...

  11. Likes EUFighter, CTU liked this post
  12. #8
    CQMS
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    496
    Post Thanks / Like
    Ireland doles out how many tens of millions of euro per annum to Uganda (to give one example), and much of it finds its way into the bank accounts of its government ministers.

    Meanwhile, the Ugandan Air Force is taking delivery of state-of-the-art Su 30s from Russia.

    You're on about Irish air defence, you could probably pay for a respectable enough little air defence system with all the money pissed away each year on 'aid'.

  13. Thanks sofa thanked for this post
    Likes apod, sofa, Shaqra liked this post
  14. #9
    Commander in Chief
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    5,785
    Post Thanks / Like
    If only we could include the gifting of our old OPVs to certain developing countries as part of our overseas aid budget, and the actual money could go back into defence.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  15. Likes DeV liked this post
  16. #10
    CQMS
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    496
    Post Thanks / Like
    That'd be a good idea and a good start, but the amount you'd recoup from it alone wouldn't be much.

    What they should do is withdraw Irish taxpayer aid to any and all countries where it has been misappropriated, and/or countries which claim to be unable to provide basic necessities for their people, while at the same time splashing out large sums on highly advanced warplanes.

    I don't know how much funding that would free up for the DoD, but add it up over the space of, say, a decade, and you'd have to imagine it'd be a fair whack. Hundreds of millions, probably.
    Certainly enough to significantly bolster our ability to police our territorial waters and airspace.
    Last edited by FCA Trooper; 10th March 2020 at 14:09.

  17. Likes na grohmiti, apod liked this post
  18. #11
    Commander in Chief
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    5,785
    Post Thanks / Like
    Better on our pocket than theirs, unless the sum recovered ends up in the bottomless pit that is the health sector.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  19. Likes DeV liked this post
  20. #12
    Captain
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    1,714
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    Better on our pocket than theirs, unless the sum recovered ends up in the bottomless pit that is the health sector.
    It will, forget any chance of increased spending, that "€11 billion" the parties were talking about is gone, let alone the SF €20+ billion

  21. Likes DeV, Flamingo liked this post
  22. #13
    Commandant
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    1,763
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    It will, forget any chance of increased spending, that "€11 billion" the parties were talking about is gone, let alone the SF €20+ billion
    The US has taken a strategic look at Ireland, and have pointed out that many hundreds of US owned companies have interests and data centres here. They want to know what are we doing at a cyber and cybernetic level to protect these assets. They imply if we don't meet a level of competent security there will be consequences.

  23. #14
    Captain
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    1,714
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    The US has taken a strategic look at Ireland, and have pointed out that many hundreds of US owned companies have interests and data centres here. They want to know what are we doing at a cyber and cybernetic level to protect these assets. They imply if we don't meet a level of competent security there will be consequences.
    That's Trump being Trump, and don't change my point. We have a global recession without question and a health service that's going to swallow every cent it can for at least the next year. Forget extra spending in the DF it's not there and won't be there.

  24. #15
    Commander in Chief
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    5,785
    Post Thanks / Like
    I disagree. The current situation permits spending increases without much scrutiny in government or with the public.
    The state just found €3bn to deal with the crisis, accepting that our national deficit will suffer. However we are rapidly heading towards a worldwide recession, and the pandemic has the potential to kill many, including politicians, which could completely change government priorities.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  25. #16
    Captain
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    1,714
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    I disagree. The current situation permits spending increases without much scrutiny in government or with the public.
    The state just found €3bn to deal with the crisis, accepting that our national deficit will suffer. However we are rapidly heading towards a worldwide recession, and the pandemic has the potential to kill many, including politicians, which could completely change government priorities.
    And that spending increase is going to go into Health and Social Welfare when the unemployment starts going up again, not Defence, its a simply reality. As to the current "found money" what they've basically done is front load from the fiscal space (which yeah doesn't exist anymore), even assuming a magical solution was found and things returned to normal it would mean the 11 billion would be down to 8 billion of space. Instead as we agree it's a global recession, which means resources are going to be even more limited and where they go more contested, any Government isn't going to be selling investing in major Capital projects in Defence when arguing over how many ICU beds are in the system, god forbid we get to the Italian stage of Doctors triaging and abandoning patients.

    Maybe if the DF is doing ATCP for a year or so, the pay situation might get looked at, but suggesting major upgrades/investment in areas like Cyber or Undersea data cables or Air surveillance...Nope.

  26. #17
    Commander in Chief
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    5,785
    Post Thanks / Like
    Questions are being asked as to why the spare hospital capacity the defence forces had was allowed to disappear. Wouldn't it be great if we still had the empty hospitals in Cork and the Curragh? Why was the modular mobile field hospital not replaced (at a cost of €10m) when the old one was left overseas, having served its purpose and suffered wear and tear from local conditions.
    What about the army medical corps, once able to take up the slack in times of emergency, now a token operation.
    All systematically wound down by the DoD, to save money that didnt need to be saved.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  27. Thanks apod thanked for this post
    Likes CTU, apod liked this post
  28. #18
    Lieutenant EUFighter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    1,280
    Post Thanks / Like
    Can the state afford to spend 2% on GNI on defence? Yes
    Will people find as ever excuses why not to do it? Yes

    The amount of money wasted by the state is criminal, and not all the blame is with the government but also with the citizens. Just look at the headlines over the past year on people waiting on trollies, no that the most serious pandemic has hit suddenly when you would expect more people in hospital the numbers have dramatically dropped. Why? Because those who are abusing the system suddenly realise that the same bruise does not need to be treated at A&E.

    Even if income tax is relatively high the overall tax take is low, and the state suffers the typical problems of low tax economies, such as highly inflated property prices. And despite that some see defence as money wasted if properly directed if can help to diversify an economy. The spin off can be in high tech and engineering all of which we should be developing as not to become stuck as a service economy.

    As for cyber defence this should be handled at EU level as no one country will have the required resource and all are threatened.

    No that Putin has secured his wish to be President for Life (am sure he will also be working on how to secure his legacy after he dies) we will see a more assertive and aggressive Ivan. Anytime the see a weakness they will try and exploit, they see the Covid-19 as something that is a challenge to the West so a perfect time for them to try and stretch the western defences. Hence why almost daily long range flights that we are seeing.

    Will any of this change our politicians view of defence? No. The only way that will happen is once the EU starts to pile on the pressure to do something and once we get the bill from the RAF once BoJo realises we have been getting cover for free!

  29. Likes CTU, Tempest, apod liked this post
  30. #19
    C/S CTU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    London
    Posts
    1,149
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    Questions are being asked as to why the spare hospital capacity the defence forces had was allowed to disappear. Wouldn't it be great if we still had the empty hospitals in Cork and the Curragh? Why was the modular mobile field hospital not replaced (at a cost of €10m) when the old one was left overseas, having served its purpose and suffered wear and tear from local conditions.
    What about the army medical corps, once able to take up the slack in times of emergency, now a token operation.
    All systematically wound down by the DoD, to save money that didnt need to be saved.
    To top it all off, both the "Minister for Defence" and the Juniour Minister where out of the country while all of this was being organised. What other nation in the world would allow that to happen?
    Well, government doesn't stop just because the country's been destroyed!
    I mean, annihilation's bad enough without anarchy to make things even worse!

  31. Likes na grohmiti, Flamingo, EUFighter liked this post
  32. #20
    Commandant
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    1,763
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    That's Trump being Trump, and don't change my point. We have a global recession without question and a health service that's going to swallow every cent it can for at least the next year. Forget extra spending in the DF it's not there and won't be there.
    Read RACO's submission on Security and related Defence matters. The Virus is here via CHINA and is a Demonstration of the vulnerability of all nations to deliberate or accidental pandemics. As the leading NBC trained professionals , aided by Civil Defence, we should be the Nation's EW Agency in such related matters. It could be the reason the PDF has suddenly got an order passed to purchase 124 SCANIA's and the GARDA new Patrol Vehicles. The PDF is our only guarantee of Sovereignty and unquestioning response. The underspend over the last 2 decades is leaving us with a Defence Forces that itself needs assistance and a new dedicated M.O.D.
    Last edited by ancientmariner; 14th March 2020 at 09:35.

  33. Thanks EUFighter thanked for this post
    Likes Flamingo, sofa liked this post
  34. #21
    Brigadier General
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    2,911
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    Read RACO's submission on Security and related Defence matters. The Virus is here via CHINA and is a Demonstration of the vulnerability of all nations to deliberate or accidental pandemics. As the leading NBC trained professionals , aided by Civil Defence, we should be the Nation's EW Agency in such related matters. It could be the reason the PDF has suddenly got an order passed to purchase 124 SCANIA's and the GARDA new Patrol Vehicles. The PDF is our only guarantee of Sovereignty and unquestioning response. The underspend over the last 2 decades is leaving us with a Defence Forces that itself needs assistance and a new dedicated M.O.D.
    And control of its own budget

  35. #22
    C/S
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    342
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    but suggesting major upgrades/investment in areas like Cyber or Undersea data cables or Air surveillance...Nope.
    In the very least Cyber must be addressed or the whole IT sector will become vapourware as the massive US corporate investment into Ireland that built that sector and the tens of thousands of jobs within it upsticks elsewhere. That is the consequence.

  36. Likes CTU, na grohmiti, apod liked this post
  37. #23
    Lieutenant EUFighter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    1,280
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Anzac View Post
    In the very least Cyber must be addressed or the whole IT sector will become vapourware as the massive US corporate investment into Ireland that built that sector and the tens of thousands of jobs within it upsticks elsewhere. That is the consequence.
    The Cyber sector could be one where Ireland takes a leading role in the EU. Given the amount of expertise in country and it would be an area where the left would have little to attack. And it should be an EU wide defence as one country alone, at least one of our size would have difficulty on its own.

  38. Likes DeV liked this post
  39. #24
    Hostage Flamingo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Over the water
    Posts
    4,068
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    The Cyber sector could be one where Ireland takes a leading role in the EU. Given the amount of expertise in country and it would be an area where the left would have little to attack. And it should be an EU wide defence as one country alone, at least one of our size would have difficulty on its own.
    Given the level of expertise required, they will have the opportunity for much higher-paid jobs in the private sector, which might be one barrier to recruitment
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

  40. #25
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    22,697
    Post Thanks / Like
    But yet Ireland isn’t participating in the EDA Cyber type projects

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •