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The Future of the Army Reserve - Discuss

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  • Originally posted by Truck Driver View Post
    i think (subject to PDF person on the board confirming this) that the "family friendly" option only applies where you would have a "wingman" to commit to the other half of the deployment
    There is currently no family-friendly overseas vacancies, its six months straight with no leave, plus two weeks quarantine beforehand.
    When there was, a small number of vacancies were pre-designated as family-friendly and someone could apply for the first three months or the second.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by batterysgt View Post
      Why not?
      I'm just going by all that's been said in the Dáil on the matter.

      Also, why would you send an RDF private in an infantry role when you have PDF privates with far more training who require overseas tours to assist with promotion?

      Now a situation where the PDF was struggling to fill such slots on tours would be a different story.

      Comment


      • there is no chance of an infantry 3* or any combat arm going. RDF standards aside you are taking a PDF soldier's career spot so not a runner. Take it from me I've gone down as far as possible this road as you can go . It has to be specialists.
        "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

        "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

        Comment


        • Originally posted by trellheim View Post
          there is no chance of an infantry 3* or any combat arm going. RDF standards aside you are taking a PDF soldier's career spot so not a runner. Take it from me I've gone down as far as possible this road as you can go . It has to be specialists.
          Agreed, the most efficient use of the reserve asset is to focus on specialists. If you want to go overseas and you don't have specialist skills - you should have joined the PDF.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Auldsod View Post
            I'm just going by all that's been said in the Dáil on the matter.

            Also, why would you send an RDF private in an infantry role when you have PDF privates with far more training who require overseas tours to assist with promotion?

            Now a situation where the PDF was struggling to fill such slots on tours would be a different story.
            RDF should be trained at the same level as PDF. Look at the barracks during normal working hours, very few are carrying section attacks etc, most are in the gym l, office, duty or resting off. RDF do the same training, albeit over a long period and some would easily fill a 3* post overseas. Dont the NSR go on patrols with the navy and drive their boats, it should be similar to overseas.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by batterysgt View Post
              RDF should be trained at the same level as PDF. Look at the barracks during normal working hours, very few are carrying section attacks etc, most are in the gym l, office, duty or resting off. RDF do the same training, albeit over a long period and some would easily fill a 3* post overseas. Dont the NSR go on patrols with the navy and drive their boats, it should be similar to overseas.
              I'm not qualified to comment as to whether an RDF 3* is trained to the exact same standard as a PDF 3* in the army. To meet that standard, I'd expect the exact same training package over the same time frame. How many years would it take to train an RDF soldier to that level?

              The NSR do go to sea with the navy but it is still in a relatively safe and controlled environment. Unless the NSR member has significant time out at sea under their belt (months) or have a similar civilian role; their time on patrol is essentially as someone under training. You are always learning on the job and there is always that gulf of experience and training between you and the full-time sailors that you are aspiring to close. Now that's not to say that some in the NSR with no civilian seagoing experience haven't come close to the basic trained level of an NS A/B - there are those who have spent whole Summers at sea. They’ve rightly earned respect on the ships.

              Now if there was a national emergency in the morning and I was placed on permanent service with the NS - personally I believe I'd be able to bring myself up to the same standard as a PDF AB with on the job training specifically in the seaman’s branch. Maybe I'm being naïve and there is a certain 'je ne sais quoi that I would be lacking without that two weeks in Kilworth and endless PT that I'd have missed from PDF recruit training? Personally, I think an RDF O/S and a PDF O/S would be indistinguishable after a few weeks if they both were posted to their first ship at the same time and were both on board for a sustained period. I'm not an expert though and I would love to hear the argument otherwise from someone with the experience.
              I was beating around the bush there, but my point is that an RDF A/B wouldn’t have been sent to the Mediterranean on the recent deployments. That job required those going to have full training and experience. I know nothing about tours of duty peacekeeping with the army but I’m assuming they are also environments where you’d rather not be still learning on the job.

              Comment


              • Many years ago the Cav Corps had corps concentrations. Reserve units arrived in the Glen the week before and spent it all practicing contact drills, patrols etc.
                Week 2 the PDF arrived, 72 hour ex commenced with composite recce troops. We were assessed by PDF ds, and with the Cav being ahead of time and wearing same headgear they couldn't really tell without chance see cking notes who was who. I was on one occasion car commander with a pdf driver and a reserve gunner. Troop commander was pdf and his 2 ic was reserve. We did the exact same thing throughout the ex.
                On another occasion TC was reserve, 2ic pdf, and i was the only reservist in my vehicle. We put in the time, we learned the way it was done, we did it well enough that all boxes were ticked a day early, meaning we got home early.
                The corps units were always better at this sort of thing though. I hear similar stories from people in artillery and what was transport.
                For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                Comment


                • Not necessarily especially in next year or so as a lot of people could end up unemployed
                  They would also receive their line pay Etc

                  A
                  lso you assume overseas means Syria, Lebanon etc for 6 months... not necessarily:
                  - family friendly tour is 3 months I think
                  - could be a few days to a couple of months to bring over equipment (eg drivers), upgrade systems (eg CIS, engineers etc)
                  - could be a few days to a few weeks at a conference, exercise, course, competition

                  “Overseas” is a broad description in the Defence Act
                  Short term deployment as part of a EU missions has already happened. But again it was dependant on the person getting approval for a leave of absence or taking leave from their employment to do so. If someone walks into my office and says he wants to take 8 months off to go overseas with the DF..off ya go mate and don't bother coming back... I have ten guys waiting for your job..and he stands to lose seniority in his job which will cost him premium pay into the future so in fact he's not going anywhere in the first place.

                  But as part of a lucrative money making exercise for exers in the reserve , its quite straight forward , they need it to be straight six month UN deployments to be of any financial value to themselves and there fore contracts of engagement would need to be very
                  specific and would be fraught with issues for both sides.

                  The reserves is no longer the 8,000 pool of people when this was first mooted in the 90s and comparably few reservists exist in the work place any more. A town like Clonmel that probably had a hundred serving reservists 20 years ago now has a sum total of zero and the overseas numbers for no specialists are far and few between so in essence the DoD have very little interest in accommodating those who may wish to do so that they don't actually need.
                  Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Auldsod View Post
                    Agreed, the most efficient use of the reserve asset is to focus on specialists. If you want to go overseas and you don't have specialist skills - you should have joined the PDF.
                    But you need to be able to attract those specialist into the reserve in the first place, those appointments are far and few between and tend to be unattractive financially
                    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                    Comment


                    • Changing the act to permit service overseas is a one-liner. Putting employment protection for reservists back onto the books is more complicated.
                      "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                      "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                      Comment


                      • I suppose it very much depends on the reservist's civilian employment. If you work for certain large employers such as the multinationals, you would have the possibility of taking an unpaid leave of absence retaining any seniority etc. Where I work it would certainly be manageable and would have the same impact on a career as say maternity leave. The barrier would be impact to salary to those in such protected employment but I suppose money shouldn't be the motivation to serve overseas for a reservist in such a position you'd hope.

                        As for employment protection. Could we not directly lift and adapt what they have in the UK? I know it's still not full protection but would be a start? We definitely live in a two tier country when it comes to employment protection and standards. I remember talking to an NCO in my unit and he straight up wouldn't believe me when I said I received sick pay. He likened it to an employment unicorn like a defined benefit pension!

                        Also don't forget that going overseas for six months would also require time off for all of the pre deployment workup and decompression time afterwards.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                          But you need to be able to attract those specialist into the reserve in the first place, those appointments are far and few between and tend to be unattractive financially
                          Some are already filling specialist vacancies/taskings and are the SMEs

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                            Not necessarily especially in next year or so as a lot of people could end up unemployed
                            They would also receive their line pay Etc

                            A

                            Short term deployment as part of a EU missions has already happened. But again it was dependant on the person getting approval for a leave of absence or taking leave from their employment to do so. If someone walks into my office and says he wants to take 8 months off to go overseas with the DF..off ya go mate and don't bother coming back... I have ten guys waiting for your job..and he stands to lose seniority in his job which will cost him premium pay into the future so in fact he's not going anywhere in the first place.

                            But as part of a lucrative money making exercise for exers in the reserve , its quite straight forward , they need it to be straight six month UN deployments to be of any financial value to themselves and there fore contracts of engagement would need to be very
                            specific and would be fraught with issues for both sides.

                            The reserves is no longer the 8,000 pool of people when this was first mooted in the 90s and comparably few reservists exist in the work place any more. A town like Clonmel that probably had a hundred serving reservists 20 years ago now has a sum total of zero and the overseas numbers for no specialists are far and few between so in essence the DoD have very little interest in accommodating those who may wish to do so that they don't actually need.
                            Not that I’m aware of


                            There was an ask by PDF to deploy a very small number of RDF personnel a couple of years ago to support the EUBG and they weren’t allowed go.

                            Realistically speaking we might be talking an few engineers (could be civvy engineers in the infantry) going over for a few weeks to upgrade a camp, could be a senior officer for a few days for a conference, could be an officer on a 2 week course in the U.K.

                            It is never likely/necessary to be compulsory and will be only those available.

                            Comment


                            • going for 6 months means 6 months at least of basic stadards, fitness, mre, predeployment training, formup and specialist stuff getting whatever it is that is specialist running, e.g. setting up a logs facility ( to take one example) , so its a year or thereabouts
                              "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                              "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                              Comment


                              • I'm watching my locals do predeployment training rn and it would not be possible to do it unless on ftt in the months leading up
                                "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                                "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                                Comment

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