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  • Originally posted by Auldsod View Post
    ....That's very interesting about the driving course. I didn't know they could run the MOD 2B without trailer. I always assumed that the only way you would get a 154 without trailer is to fail that aspect of the course. Good call to remove it if not needed though. It took up a significant proportion of the course I was on. Could definitely fast track without it.
    Trailer is a constituent part of the MOD2 (A and B) course syllabus, so don't know where this 'course without trailer' came about.

    True that you can get a MOD 2 154 without trailer (i.e. fail trailer test).
    But said induvidual CANNOT proceed to MOD 3A (minibus) without trailer.
    THAT is called out as a pre requirement on the 3A syllabus
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

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    • Originally posted by Truck Driver View Post
      Trailer is a constituent part of the MOD2 (A and B) course syllabus, so don't know where this 'course without trailer' came about.

      True that you can get a MOD 2 154 without trailer (i.e. fail trailer test).
      But said induvidual CANNOT proceed to MOD 3A (minibus) without trailer.
      THAT is called out as a pre requirement on the 3A syllabus
      I still have nightmares about that dreaded 'cone' garage!

      Comment


      • Way back in the day, it was command (or Bde, I guess, today) centric. I recall going to Aikens for recruit training with a whole bunch of folks I had never seen before nor since for a couple of weeks. Does that not still happen? Though, yes, you would probably get an economy of scale for the whole country.
        Driver, tracks, troops.... Drive and adjust!!

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        • Originally posted by California Tanker View Post
          Way back in the day, it was command (or Bde, I guess, today) centric. I recall going to Aikens for recruit training with a whole bunch of folks I had never seen before nor since for a couple of weeks. Does that not still happen? Though, yes, you would probably get an economy of scale for the whole country.
          Same
          No unfortunately every unit seems to run own course. Some locations are pooling resources.

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          • Originally posted by Truck Driver View Post
            Trailer is a constituent part of the MOD2 (A and B) course syllabus, so don't know where this 'course without trailer' came about.

            True that you can get a MOD 2 154 without trailer (i.e. fail trailer test).
            But said induvidual CANNOT proceed to MOD 3A (minibus) without trailer.
            THAT is called out as a pre requirement on the 3A syllabus
            Think we the test case for the modular course (before the modular driver training policy)

            Comment


            • In 2008, recruitment stopped. For the next couple of years they was non stop complaining that recruitment was the life blood of the RDF. All effort was put into getting recruitment back and almost none of retention.

              There is absolutely no point in recruiting. All that effort being made to take people in, to train them etc. etc. when 95% will be gone in a year. For most units, recruitment is not about getting bodies into the organisation, it is about keeping the bodies that are there busy - training NCOs & officers, guard duties, kitchen etc. No one ever cared about retention because there would always be another group next year to keep everyone busy. That is why centralised training is detested by so many units - they have nothing to keep their own guys busy with.

              And then you get students arriving on a PNCOs Cse, students that don't know one end of a rifle from another. So much time on courses is spent training students how to use a rifle, and almost no time on how to teach that rifle. And the system is designed that there is no way to get rid of those students.

              We are flogging a dead horse here, and the PDF really don't care (why should they!). We lost our opportunity to adapt & grow in 2008.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Poiuyt View Post
                In 2008, recruitment stopped. For the next couple of years they was non stop complaining that recruitment was the life blood of the RDF. All effort was put into getting recruitment back and almost none of retention.

                There is absolutely no point in recruiting. All that effort being made to take people in, to train them etc. etc. when 95% will be gone in a year. For most units, recruitment is not about getting bodies into the organisation, it is about keeping the bodies that are there busy - training NCOs & officers, guard duties, kitchen etc. No one ever cared about retention because there would always be another group next year to keep everyone busy. That is why centralised training is detested by so many units - they have nothing to keep their own guys busy with.

                And then you get students arriving on a PNCOs Cse, students that don't know one end of a rifle from another. So much time on courses is spent training students how to use a rifle, and almost no time on how to teach that rifle. And the system is designed that there is no way to get rid of those students.

                We are flogging a dead horse here, and the PDF really don't care (why should they!). We lost our opportunity to adapt & grow in 2008.
                On my Std NCO Cse, we were put through weapon TOETs on the Steyr and GPMG at the outset.
                RTU sanction for anyone failing. So this business of 'training people on how to use a rifle' is a big no no.
                Either meet pre requisites fully or GTFO.

                Makes a mockery of those who DID put the graft in...
                "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Truck Driver View Post
                  On my Std NCO Cse, we were put through weapon TOETs on the Steyr and GPMG at the outset.
                  RTU sanction for anyone failing. So this business of 'training people on how to use a rifle' is a big no no.
                  Either meet pre requisites fully or GTFO.

                  Makes a mockery of those who DID put the graft in...
                  The standards accepted on TOETs varies a lot. People get RTUd off career courses quite a bit for failing TOETs and TOEMDs on various systems where they passwd their unit level tests. Training institutions, rightly so, demand a higher standard than units do. Thats for PDF and RDF

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                  • All effort was put into getting recruitment back and almost none of retention
                    In actual fact with everything on stop now is the best time to fix anything that needs fixing.


                    Retention :
                    We can't fix grat or pay (neither can the PDF, only the department can make regulations) . Personal equipment is more or less fixed, a slightly outdated L3 aside. Access to equipment and facilities ( from where I sit) is the best its ever been . Productive jobs in the reserve theres a job as long as your arm helping the PDF if you have the time, and the mandays are there.

                    What else do people want here.
                    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by trellheim View Post
                      In actual fact with everything on stop now is the best time to fix anything that needs fixing.


                      Retention :
                      We can't fix grat or pay (neither can the PDF, only the department can make regulations) . Personal equipment is more or less fixed, a slightly outdated L3 aside. Access to equipment and facilities ( from where I sit) is the best its ever been . Productive jobs in the reserve theres a job as long as your arm helping the PDF if you have the time, and the mandays are there.

                      What else do people want here.
                      Unfortunately not everyone’s experience is the same.

                      The admin system of the DF is not geared to efficiency and there are a lot of shredders available (and not just PDF ones)

                      Comment


                      • The last few posts could be summed up to, those who put in the graft get rewarded and those that want it all on plate get fcukall and give out, there are exceptions to that. From what I've seen over the years, if your unit has proper leadership, interest, trust and good time management they will succeed but I've seen others where Selfishness has ruined it for all and has resulted in no trust.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by batterysgt View Post
                          The last few posts could be summed up to, those who put in the graft get rewarded and those that want it all on plate get fcukall and give out, there are exceptions to that. From what I've seen over the years, if your unit has proper leadership, interest, trust and good time management they will succeed but I've seen others where Selfishness has ruined it for all and has resulted in no trust.
                          It also unfortunately depends on RDF personnel being at the very least available to make plenty of phone calls and visits in person during the Norma working week

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                          • those who put in the graft get rewarded and those that want it all on plate get fcukall
                            not sure where your going there

                            That said there's a lot of subunits in poor state and its damn difficult for the rural subs
                            "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                            "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by trellheim View Post
                              not sure where your going there

                              That said there's a lot of subunits in poor state and its damn difficult for the rural subs
                              A lot of sub-units are reactive, stop at first obstacle etc

                              And that is part of the problem

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Truck Driver View Post
                                On my Std NCO Cse, we were put through weapon TOETs on the Steyr and GPMG at the outset.
                                RTU sanction for anyone failing. So this business of 'training people on how to use a rifle' is a big no no.
                                Either meet pre requisites fully or GTFO.

                                Makes a mockery of those who DID put the graft in...
                                BUT the prerequisites state that you must have your TOETs done.

                                Training syllabi usually state that Students should arrive on courses with their abs 220 stating that they have their TOETs done by their unit when they may NEVER have done them.
                                Training syllabi also state what is to be done on a course and it normally does not state that you can do TOETs with a student and RTU them for failing. Your Std NCOs cse was run incorrectly if you were put through TOETs and anyone who was failed has a redress.

                                I agree: it should be done, but it isn't and cannot be. We can't even get the Syllabus right.

                                Originally posted by batterysgt View Post
                                The last few posts could be summed up to, those who put in the graft get rewarded and those that want it all on plate get fcukall and give out, there are exceptions to that. From what I've seen over the years, if your unit has proper leadership, interest, trust and good time management they will succeed but I've seen others where Selfishness has ruined it for all and has resulted in no trust.
                                I have to completely disagree - if the 2013 reorg was anything to go by, you put in the work and you get shafted. Having a course done in the DFTC seemed to be a big black mark against you when it came to handing out appointments. I saw a lot of good guys and girls screwed over and left to rot. And those who spent their time in the mess or the canteen kissing the CO's & CS's arses came out on top smelling of roses.

                                Can you remember how long it took for the DFTC to get students back on courses after that?!! I remember 2014 as being the year when no one, and I mean NO ONE, would do a DFTC course as it mean you wanted to commit career suicide. 2014 was the year when you trained with your sub-unit, spent all your time in the mess, laughed at the COs and CSs awful jokes and hoped that you would be thrown a crumb or 2 from the top table.

                                A lot of the best people could not take it anymore and left. People were screwed over in 2005. They fought back and got back into the organisation through hard work and determination. And got screwed over again in 2013. I know many of them and it absolutely broke their hearts and souls.
                                Last edited by Poiuyt; 8 October 2020, 17:15.

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