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  1. #276
    Cut backs luchi's Avatar
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    You only have grounds for redress if you apply and are turned down.
    Since the posts are not allowed to be advertised then you cannot apply thus have no grounds for redress!!!!!!!!!!!

    The rule about acting only on FTT seems to be open to interpretation.
    We had an Acting Sgt for about 2 years and what was said that the rules say that you cannot be acting in a rank without the sanction of the pay for that rank. Since you are not being paid when not on FTT then you can have anyone acting as long as there is a post vacant. In this case there was a vacancy blocked by an non-effective Sgt.
    Without supplies no army is brave.

    —Frederick the Great,

    Instructions to his Generals, 1747

  2. #277
    Commander in Chief Bravo20's Avatar
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    The rule is not open to interpretation your unit just chose to ignore it. Of course the rule was put in place to deal with a PDF problem and no consideration was given to the needs of the RDF where a substantial amount of the time someone is in the rank is unpaid.

    I expect to see a lot of units ignoring the acting unpaid rule as needs must

  3. #278
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    Consider. If someone takes on a rank, that taking on must be legal, otherwise chaos.

    Therefore someone must be appointed to a rank in a legal fashion.

    In order to do so, you must follow Admin Instr R5 Promotions.

    This says no "acting" unless during FTT, and the acting is paid. There is no provision otherwise.

    Lastly, I do believe non-effectives do not block vacancies. [ current embargos aside] (R5 para 49 (3) ]
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  4. #279
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    Lastly, I do believe non-effectives do not block vacancies. [ current embargos aside] (R5 para 49 (3) ]
    If you look at the monthly strength return or the recommendation for promotion form, total strength = effective + non-effective strength.

    Section 18 says there must be a vacancy on establishment, personnel can't hold supernumerary appointments (the only exception being officers on fixed period promotions, and they then block any vanancies in that rank).

  5. #280
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    just fill in the AF384 first and get the man promoted. If filling a vacancy is a problem then just shift the other vacancies around within the unit.

    If this becomes a real issue just fill the vacancy and request demotion of the holder under R5AI Para 32(5)

    For example we've had 3 [ or 2 ] SNCO vacancies for some time now
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  6. #281
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    There are at least 3. 2 of those in 1 coy.

    2 of those were at interview stage (there was only 1 application for each) and these will not now be filled.

  7. #282
    Cut backs luchi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    There are at least 3. 2 of those in 1 coy.

    2 of those were at interview stage (there was only 1 application for each) and these will not now be filled.
    Why? I thought promotions already advertised and selection process under way were being allowed?

    B20 in the past maybe they did ignore it but it appears that the current situation is being sanctioned from above.
    Without supplies no army is brave.

    —Frederick the Great,

    Instructions to his Generals, 1747

  8. #283
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luchi View Post
    Why? I thought promotions already advertised and selection process under way were being allowed?
    Nothing is being allowed!

    Say the letter regarding PDF last week. Even where promotion boards have sat and made a recommendation and a promotion is waiting to be signed by DCOS!

  9. #284
    Captain Truck Driver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luchi View Post
    Why? I thought promotions already advertised and selection process under way were being allowed?

    B20 in the past maybe they did ignore it but it appears that the current situation is being sanctioned from above.
    As Bravo and Trellheim said, it is in black and white.

    No Acting Rank unless during FTT. And there is even a form for the purpose of
    the temporary promotion, which also details the date at which the person
    reverts back to their substantive rank. The form is in Admin Instr R5
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

  10. #285
    Commander in Chief Bravo20's Avatar
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    It is being approved on an nod and a wink basis. That being said I am not opposed to acting promotions in times other than on full time training.

    The acting unpaid rank was forbidden in order to remove the abuse of the procedure in the PDF years ago whereby people were put into unpaid acting ranks for significant periods of time. The regulation was changed but as usual nobody looked into the impact that change would have on the reserve.

    For example, Coy B is short a Sgt for 6 months, Cpl A is the most suitable candidate to fill the role and is filling the role. The regulations (prior to the embargo) allow for Cpl A to be promoted to acting Sgt when on annual training but does not allow for the Cpl to be acting Sgt during normal parades and field days.

    I believe the regulations should be changed to allow for acting ranks for a specified period of time and if full time training occurs during that period then he is acting paid.

  11. #286
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    You can interpret the letter from Dept of finance as saying, you can promote someone if such promotion does not entitle them to an extra allowence or wage increase...
    Can you promote someone temporarily, without paying them extra for their new position?


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  12. #287
    Captain Truck Driver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish View Post
    Can you promote someone temporarily, without paying them extra for their new position?
    According to the Southern Hog, Acting Unpaid has been done away with years ago,
    so I would say the probable answer to that is no
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

  13. #288
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    All upgradings/promotions involve a wage increase apart from RDF 2/Lt to Lt (I think).

    The directive from DFHQ is quite specific NO promotions (extra allowances/pay or not!)

  14. #289
    Gunner concussion's Avatar
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    From the Irish Times
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...243553634.html

    THE CABINET ordered an immediate and indefinite public ector jobs embargo, and exceptions will require the personal sanction of Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan, it has emerged.
    There isn't much being said about this...does anyone have any idea what these exceptions are and how hard it will be to get approval? (in fact, does he know himself?)
    "Attack your attic with a Steyr....as seen on the Late Late Show..."

  15. #290
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Case by case basis. Essential services first.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  16. #291
    Commander in Chief Bravo20's Avatar
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    Certain exemptions already provided for certain HSE positions and certain education positions.

  17. #292
    Gunner concussion's Avatar
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    "Attack your attic with a Steyr....as seen on the Late Late Show..."

  18. #293
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bravo20 View Post
    Certain exemptions already provided for certain HSE positions and certain education positions.
    That was exempted initially, but basically, every promotion or recruitment must get the say so of the Minister for Finance.
    So far he is being very quiet. Some campaigns are running, but nobody is sure if appointments will be made.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  19. #294
    Teuton Foot Soldier ZULU's Avatar
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    365. To ask the Minister for Defence his plans for the future of the Reserve Defence Force; and if he will make a statement on the matter. — Jim O’Keeffe. [16576/09] - to be asked in the Dail today 28.04.09
    fyi
    "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

  20. #295
    Teuton Foot Soldier ZULU's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    Operational taskings take priority usually, therefore if training dates must change then they must change.

    This happens all the time, but the flexibility of the RDF in this regard is not well understood by the PDF, in that if you plan it, people will select work leave dates etc to match up with the planned dates. If these dates are changed then then the number of people who can train will drop off. Since there is no facility for making the employer give you the time off then this occurs.

    Secondly, full-time jobs usually take precedence in the current economic climate.

    Found this

    http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lf/Down...ement-2009.xls


    Amazing. THe Canadians can give a full year of courses, dates, numbers for, locations, etc for both regular and reserve forces and post it on the interweb.
    "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

  21. #296
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    Any word on what was said in the Dail today??
    Is the RDF still gonna be ticking along for another while...
    Life's short, party naked :-)

  22. #297
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    You will see the answer maybe tomorrow afternoon on the oireachtas website. Its a Written answer.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  23. #298
    Cut backs luchi's Avatar
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    The FCA weathered the last recession.
    Unit cadre was cut to the minimum and rescources became scarce.
    Recruiting was strangled.
    Mandays were severely limited.
    There were always rumours of canning the FCA.

    Now I know people believe that the RDF is a radically different organisation but why are people so pesimistic about its survival?
    Without supplies no army is brave.

    —Frederick the Great,

    Instructions to his Generals, 1747

  24. #299
    Commander in Chief Bravo20's Avatar
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    Recruiting in the FCA was not restricted in the last recession and the FCA was approximately 15k at the time

  25. #300
    Private 2*
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul g View Post
    They're very large brigades by anybody's standards, and given that there's barely enough equipment for one brigade, ( think of the numbers of 105mm artillery and modern reconnaissance vehicles) not very likely. Was tried between 1959 and 1979, and didnt work then. Furthermore the need for large number of trained soldiers to resist an invasion went with the end of the cold war. The DF is re-structuring towards overseas deployments, the nonintegrated AR is in that case obsolete.

    What everybody is forgetting is that ireland has one of the largest reserve armies in Europe, the TA in the UK has 14 infantry battaions, were they organised the as the AR then they'ld have a whopping 168 battalions, the TA has three 105mm artillery regiments, as do the AR in theory, need I go on? The department and the PDF want a much smaller reserve, that is far more useful to them, basically the 2300 that qualify for a gratuity annually.

    They might look at the TA infantry battalion structure in the U.K, and reduce the force to three battalions, which will help keep things spread. As pointed out, there are only enough people qualifying for the gratuity to justify a force this size anyway.

    They won't get to keep three integrated brigades in the next white paper, they only managed that because of a carefully orchestrated press campaign and given the brass have got their new role more clearly defined, they probably won't want to either.
    Territorial Army Elements within Northern Ireland include –

    o
    o QOY:
    RHQ – Newcastle.
    A Sqn – Ayr/Motherwell.
    B (NIH) Sqn – Belfast.
    C Sqn – Cupar/Forfar (from A Coy, 7 SCOTS).
    D Sqn – Newcastle/Sunderland.
    Y Sqn – York/Hull. 455

    o 105 Regt RA (V):
    RHQ – Edinburgh.
    206 Bty – Newtonards.o
    207 Bty – Edinburgh.
    212 Bty – Arbroath. 306

    591 Indep Fd Sqn – Bangor/Antrim 159

    40 Sig Regt (V):
    RHQ – Belfast.
    66 Sig Sqn – Belfast (to Sp Sqn).
    69 Sig Sqn – Belfast/Limavady (reduces to Det).
    85 Sig Sqn – Bangor. 349

    2 Bn Royal Irish
    RHQ – Portadown.
    A Coy – Newtonards.
    B Coy – Newtonabbey/Ballymena.
    C Coy –Armagh/Enniskillen (from B Coy).
    The Band of the Royal Irish Regt – Lisburn. 433


    o 204 Fd Hosp (V):
    HQ – Belfast.
    B Det – Ballymena.
    C Det – Newtonards.
    D Det - Armagh. 261

    o 253 Div GS Med Regt (V):
    RHQ – Belfast.
    B Evac Sqn – Londonderry.
    Sp Sqn – Belfast.
    XXX Area Med Sqn – Belfast.
    YYY Area Med Sqn – Belfast. 371

    o 152 Tpt Regt RLC (V) (from AMS):
    RHQ – Belfast.
    211 Tpt Sqn – Londonderry/Coleraine.
    220 Tpt Sqn – Belfast.
    400 Tpt Sqn – Belfast. 373


    o 5 RMP:
    RHQ - Edinburgh.
    243 Pro Coy – Livingston/Lisburn.
    252 Pro Coy – Stockton on Tees/Newcastle. 236


    o 5 MI Bn(V):
    RHQ – TBC.
    51 MI Coy – North London.
    52 MI Coy – Edinburgh/Newton Abbey.
    53 MI Coy – York/Gateshead.
    54 MI Coy – Bristol/Cardiff/Exeter.
    55 MI Coy – Birmingham/Chorley/Nottingham 374

    These are the Regimental/Bn Totals
    B Sqn NIH now account for 90
    206 Bty involve some 120
    591 Sqn are 159 strong
    40 Signals are 349
    2nd Bn RIrish are 433
    The Medics and logistics are as listed
    8 Detachment Military Police are platoon strength
    And 52 MI Coy were some 47 of whom 10 were in Newtown Abbey
    The UOTC has an establishment of 168
    Allowing for command and control etc a figure of 2500 may be appropriate.

    The Total ORBAT of the TA nationwide includes

    RAC
    4 x Yeomanry Regts [1750 strong]

    RA
    1 x OP Regt,
    1 x STA/MLRS Regt
    1 x UAV/GS Regt,
    1 x GBAD Regt
    3 x CS Regts [2507]

    RE
    1 x CS Regt,
    2 x GS Regts,
    2 x AS Regts,
    1 x EOD Regt,
    1 x Geo Sqn,
    1 x Cdo Sqn,
    1 x Indep CS Sqn,
    1 Amphib Tp,
    1 x Infra Sp Group. [4678]

    R Signals
    3 x PTARMIGAN Regts,
    8 x National Comms Regts,
    5 x Sqns [5260]

    INF
    14 x Bns [6687]

    AAC
    1 x AH Sp Regts,
    1 x LUH Regt [522]

    RLC
    9 x Tpt Regts,
    2 x Sup Regts,
    1 x Pnr Regt,
    1x Port Regt,
    1 x Mov Con Regt,
    1 x Postal & Courier Regt,
    1 x Catering Sp Regt [6602]

    RAMC
    3 x GS Med Regts,
    11 x Fd Hosps,
    1 x Med Evac Regt,
    5 x Med Sqns in Regular Med Regts [5268]

    REME
    4 x Bns [1557]

    Provost
    4 x Coys in 2 Regular Regts, + MPS(V) some 94 strong [618]

    Intelligence 2 x Bns [704]
    Last edited by Kieran Marum; 29th April 2009 at 17:20.

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