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  • Who the hell suggested to the chairman of the committee that we should have marines??????!!!!

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    • He's been reading IMO
      "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
      "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Bravo20 View Post
        Who the hell suggested to the chairman of the committee that we should have marines??????!!!!
        Numpty....!
        Cry "havoc!", and let slip the dogs of war!

        Comment


        • Originally posted by morpheus View Post
          He's been reading IMO
          He has been for many years, on my advice.

          HI DAVE!


          Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

          Comment


          • Update from the other thread
            1. Deputy Dara Calleary asked the Minister for Defence the status of the review into the Reserve Defence Force; the vision he has for the future of the RDF; if he sees it as an integrated part of the Defence Forces; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24647/12]

            Minister for Defence (Deputy Alan Shatter):

            The White Paper on Defence set out the blueprint for a new Reserve Defence Force, while the Reserve Defence Force review implementation plan, launched in July 2004, provided for the phased development of Reserve Defence Force capabilities in the period to the end of 2009.

            There were significant improvements to the quantity and quality of Reserve Defence Force training over the period of the implementation plan.
            However, this did not appear to improve retention rates as anticipated and strength continued to decline.

            In addition, the development of the integrated element of the Reserve Defence Force did not proceed as intended owing to low participation rates ( This is not correct, BTW the Minister has been fed a a line here ) in pilot schemes in 2007 and 2008.

            Subsequently, budgetary constraints reduced the availability of paid training for members of the Reserve Defence Force and plans to send members overseas were postponed.

            A value for money review of the Reserve Defence Force was launched in February 2010.
            This review is examining the lessons learned from the implementation plan with a view to bringing forward recommendations regarding the future development of the Reserve Defence Force.
            As the Deputy is aware, we dealt with this issue at some length yesterday at the Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality.

            In the period from December 2010 to the end of 2011 other priorities diverted analytical resources away from the value for money review.
            These priorities included the preparation of options for making savings arising from the national recovery plan and subsequently, in 2011, undertaking the comprehensive review of expenditure and the associated budgetary process.
            Work continued on the value for money review, but at a reduced rate.

            In practical terms, the development of proposals for the Reserve Defence Force would have been premature in advance of the outcome of the comprehensive review of expenditure.
            The Government revised the strength ceiling of the Permanent Defence Force to 9,500 personnel and in response
            I initiated a major reorganisation of the Defence Forces. This superseded prior recommendations regarding organisation and management of the Reserve Defence Force.

            Additional information not given on the floor of the House.


            My Department’s CRE assessment recommended no further cuts to the Reserve pending the outcome of the VFM review. It is worth noting that the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform’s central evaluation unit did not share this assessment. However, the budget for Reserve training was not reduced further in 2012 and limited recruitment within resource constraints is ongoing.

            I have asked the steering committee to progress the review as quickly as possible and anticipate its completion by the end of September.
            I look forward to receiving the final report.
            At this point I do not wish to pre-empt potential findings or recommendations on the future role of the Reserve Defence Force that the steering committee may bring forward.

            Deputy Dara Calleary: The postponement of questions meant we discussed this issue in detailed at the committee yesterday, but I will reiterate some of the points made.
            The Minister outlined yesterday the sequence of events that had led to the delay in the review of the Reserve Defence Force being completed.
            Perhaps the Minister will summarise what he said.
            The delay has added considerably to a serious morale problem within the Reserve Defence Force as it does not see any purpose or role for it.
            It is a valuable service.
            Deputy Stanton and Senator Denis Landy spoke yesterday about their experiences in it and the services it had offered during the years in backing up the civil power and doing emergency work, including flood prevention works, which are hugely significant and important.
            The review gives us a chance to reiterate and define that role for the Defence Forces in the 21st century.
            A definition of the role would stabilise retention rates and numbers could be improved.
            I suggested yesterday that in the context of examining the money being spent on the Reserve Defence Force,
            input costs associated with the Permanent Defence Force were often included and ascribed to the Reserve Defence Force as if they were were specifically its costs.
            This is a source of enormous frustration. The Minister gave some very high figures that I would like to hear again about the costs ascribed to the Permanent Defence Force and the Reserve Defence Force.
            When does he envisage the review process being completed? Will he bring it before the committee in draft form in order that we can have an input into it?

            Deputy Alan Shatter:
            As the Deputy knows, the future position of the Reserve Defence Force and the manner in which it is organised are caught up in the
            reorganisation process being undertaken to reduce it from a three brigade to a two brigade structure.
            That reorganisation must be fed into the review being undertaken of the Reserve Defence Force.
            As I said yesterday, I hope the review will be completed by September.
            We should have greater clarity surrounding the structure of the Reserve Defence Force and the numbers involved in it.

            I gave the Deputy some cost figures yesterday and they have not changed in 24 hours.
            Similar to other elements of the Defence Forces, the cost of the Reserve Defence Force is spread across a range of subheads of Vote 36.
            Subhead A5 is devoted entirely to Reserve Defence Force expenditure and includes payments for training, gratuities and allowances, including grants paid into unit funds.
            The 2012 provision is €4.386 million, the same as in 2011, and includes €2.5 million for paid training.
            Subheads A3, A4 and A17 include, inter alia, the pay and travel costs of the Permanent Defence Force personnel who provide training and administrative support for the Reserve Defence Force, generally known as the cadre.
            Subhead A19 includes rental costs of property used by the Reserve Defence Force.
            There is a range of others costs spread across other subheads, including petrol, transport and ration costs.
            They are not currently disaggregated for the Reserve Defence Force, but the key costs relating to it, if we include the Permanent Defence Force cadre, pay and employer’s PRSI payments, amount to €16,262,000.
            Allowances paid to the Permanent Defence Force cadre amount to €2,592,000. The Deputy will note the figure of almost €19 million within the Permanent Defence Force attributable to the reserve.
            It is part of the cost of the reserve because if this work was not undertaken by the individuals who form part of the cadre, they would carry out other operational duties with regard to the Permanent Defence Force.
            This is a real and identifiable cost and it is part and parcel of the overall costs. The total cost of the cadre in all matters relating to the reserve comes to €23,135,000. ( Can any one run down those numbers : B20 any ideas ?

            Deputy Dara Calleary: What potential future role is there for the reserve? Several people, including Deputy Stanton, have suggested that we consider the Civil Defence as well and its potential role. The suggestion is to combine its role with the reserve. A Civil Defence Bill is due but we are unlikely to see it this session. Does the Minister have any plans to merge the two operations together in the context of the Bill or the review?

            Deputy Alan Shatter: At the moment we are examining the reserve in the context of its functioning, its positioning and its inter-relationship with the Permanent Defence Force, PDF, and the back-up it can provide to the PDF. Naturally, there is a cross-over in the sense that certain duties the reserve undertakes to assist the civil power could equally be undertaken by the Civil Defence, a separate organisation entirely. The Deputy has raised an interesting point with regard to whether we should consider the role of both organisations to determine whether some amalgamation might be undertaken. That is not being considered at the moment and I have no wish to cause any undue concern within either organisation or to give rise to any suggestion that decisions of any nature have been made in this regard because they have not. Certainly, I will bear in mind the suggestion raised by the Deputy.
            "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

            "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

            Comment


            • This question was asked but was answered for the PDF :

              Deputy Jonathan O’Brien: Information on Jonathan O'Brien Zoom on Jonathan O'Brien In October last year the Minister sanctioned the recruitment of officers in the Reserve Defence Forces to bring the complement up to 70%. The figures we were given at the time indicated there would need to be 68 promotions. Did the promotions proceed or are they also on hold pending the overall review?

              Deputy Alan Shatter: Information on Alan Shatter Zoom on Alan Shatter Promotions have taken place. In 2011, for example, 138 officers and 219 enlisted personnel were promoted. To date this year, promotions include the appointment of one major general, four brigadier generals, 120 officers and 27 enlisted personnel.
              "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

              "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

              Comment


              • Originally posted by trellheim View Post
                This question was asked but was answered for the PDF :
                I love the way that the DOD constantly give the Minister figures and information that never answers the question.....!
                Cry "havoc!", and let slip the dogs of war!

                Comment




                • Committee on Justice and defence and Equality debate. Worth reading.


                  Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                    http://debates.oireachtas.ie/JUJ/2012/05/16/00007.asp

                    Committee on Justice and defence and Equality debate. Worth reading.
                    Did someone seriously suggest we need marines ??? or even that NS vessels be used to provide army accomodation ?
                    Anyone need a spleen ?

                    Comment


                    • Yes.
                      It's not as mad as you'd think.
                      NS Vessels have already been used to accomodate troops on overseas ops. One of the LPVs acted as a HQ for the ARW before they secured their base on Liberia. Marines, or Naval Infantry would be just like Cavalry, except they are soldiers who travel into battle from the sea.
                      Let's face it, we are surrounded by water, and have numerous offshore Islands. Wouldn't it make sense to have a dedicated "green" unit to operate at sea?
                      Have a read of the "EPV" thread in Naval Service FAQs.
                      It might make more sense.


                      Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                      Comment


                      • 13. Deputy Clare Daly Information on Clare Daly Zoom on Clare Daly asked the Minister for Defence Information on Alan Shatter Zoom on Alan Shatter if he will review the implementation of the moratorium on recruitment and promotion in the Reserve Defence Forces. [29848/12]

                        Minister for Defence (Deputy Alan Shatter): Information on Alan Shatter Zoom on Alan Shatter Recruitment to the Reserve Defence Force (RDF) is ongoing but limited due to resource constraints. The current budgetary provision provides for approximately 30,000 paid training mandays. In 2011 and 2012, I sanctioned paid training mandays to include support for the training of new recruits to the RDF. This was sufficient to train approximately 400 recruits during 2011 and 2012. The military authorities manage recruitment in this context. The numbers actually enlisted in any one year may not reflect the numbers of recruits trained in that year. In 2011 there were a total of 267 reservists enlisted and up to the end of May 2012 there have been a total of 85 enlistments to the RDF.

                        In October 2011 I agreed to sanction limited promotions within the RDF to bring the current strength in all ranks to 70% of the established strength in each rank as provided for in Defence Force regulations CS 4. In the case of promotions from Private to Corporal, the sanction provided that promotions could be made which brought strength to 60% of the established strength as provided for in Defence Force regulations CS 4. I also indicated that any ranks where the strength was at or above 70% (or 60% in the case of Corporal Rank) would not be considered for promotion. In considering the issue of promotions for the RDF I was mindful of the fact that a Value for Money view of the serve is ongoing. Additionally I had to have regard to the Comprehensive view of Expenditure which was underway at the time and which placed a requirement on Government Departments to identify opportunities for savings across all aspects of business. The position agreed by me in October last remains in place.
                        "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                        "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                        Comment


                        • Recruitment to the Reserve Defence Force (RDF) is ongoing
                          I have no idea how he can stand up and say that.
                          "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                          "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                          Comment


                          • well of course it is on going.

                            Currently we are not allowed any recruits so we are actively recruiting on an on going basis none.

                            Comment


                            • is there an announcement on new structures this Friday ?

                              Comment


                              • NSR in Cork swore in 6 tonight.

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