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  1. #4526
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftandSure View Post
    Little to none of my unit had medicals/ITs done. That includes those over 40.
    Bricins has done pre-meds and medicals at weekends for RDF members of 7 Inf.

  2. #4527
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    27Bn went on training nights to bricins
    the ITs need to start being run on weekends for RDF though
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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  4. #4528
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    Maybe the DF should consider running early morning ITs for the RDF if they have to be done during the week. I've no issue doing a PT test at 0630 as long as I'm at my desk by 0900.

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  6. #4529
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    ALL Medicals and ITs can be organized for weekends. There is NO bar to this in any regulation. I have seen weekend and evening ITs and medicals.

    that said there is a lot of scorpyness in certain tracks, especially if I've organized testers for 30 people and 9 bothered turning up and not told me; then its difficult to get them again and in fairness who can blame them theyre probably not getting a DIL AND WORST OF ALL only 4 out of the 9 pass AFTER ASSURING ME THEYVE ALL BEING TRAINING THEIR ARSES OFF FOR MONTHS . FKERS.

    I am a fat fk who's never failed an it its not that fking difficult do people not know how PDF feel about this ( well I dont but failing a G5 after having 18 months notice ? come on to fk - especially infantry - its appalling ).

    /rant off
    Last edited by trellheim; 8th August 2014 at 17:26.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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  8. #4530
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    ALL Medicals and ITs can be organized for weekends. There is NO bar to this in any regulation. I have seen weekend and evening ITs and medicals.

    that said there is a lot of scorpyness in certain tracks, especially if I've organized testers for 30 people and 9 bothered turning up and not told me; then its difficult to get them again and in fairness who can blame them theyre probably not getting a DIL AND WORST OF ALL only 4 out of the 9 pass AFTER ASSURING ME THEYVE ALL BEING TRAINING THEIR ARSES OFF FOR MONTHS . FKERS.

    I am a fat fk who's never failed an it its not that fking difficult do people not know how PDF feel about this ( well I dont but failing a G5 after having 18 months notice ? come on to fk - especially infantry - its appalling ).

    /rant off
    Did you manage to organise medicals for weekends at your loc?
    Last edited by DeV; 8th August 2014 at 21:59.

  9. #4531
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    RDF Medicals happen in St.Bricin's at the weekends and on weeknights. A constant problem is that a high percentage of RDF do not show up for appointments.

  10. #4532
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Of course it could be a comms/co-ord issue?!

  11. #4533
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    Christ. It's the same as going to see a civi doctor. You make an appointment, you turn up. Not turning up because of work is BS. An employer can't stop you from going to see a doctor for 2 hours and if it is, shall we say, "sold" to them properly, they may not even dock you the 2 hours in pay.
    Remember, it's in a civi employers interest as well to see that his employees are fit and healthy and unlikely to take sick leave very often.

  12. #4534
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F_M View Post
    Christ. It's the same as going to see a civi doctor. You make an appointment, you turn up. Not turning up because of work is BS. An employer can't stop you from going to see a doctor for 2 hours and if it is, shall we say, "sold" to them properly, they may not even dock you the 2 hours in pay.
    Remember, it's in a civi employers interest as well to see that his employees are fit and healthy and unlikely to take sick leave very often.
    If you go to your GP if it isn't urgent it is generally by an appointment of your choosing.

    My employer provides a GP service in house (partially to reduce absence to attend GP appointments. They even do audiograms.

    Your GP may not have access to all the equipment but if they did it would be working).

    Generally speaking your GP is closer to home/work.

    I have to use time in lieu

  13. #4535
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    If you go to your GP if it isn't urgent it is generally by an appointment of your choosing.
    Annual medical is by an appointment of your choosing.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    My employer provides a GP service in house (partially to reduce absence to attend GP appointments. They even do audiograms.
    Tell your employer that he can save some money because the DF will pay for your annual medical.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Your GP may not have access to all the equipment but if they did it would be working).
    All equipment has the same chance of breaking. It's just probably higher in a DF hospital.


    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Generally speaking your GP is closer to home/work.
    Not in all cases. For me, the barracks is close than my GP.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    I have to use time in lieu
    Thats your own fault really. Sell it to your boss better, book your medical for a day you have off anyway, speak to the medics to see it they will help you out on a training night.

    At the end of the day, if you want to make it work, you will find a way.
    If you view the Reserve as a hobby, then you will always have problems. It's a part-time job. Once people realise that they will find solutions to problems or they will quit.

  14. #4536
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    It is hard for me to take even my holidays due to work pressures
    If I have a day off it is spend on family holidays or RDF.

    I work M-F 0830-1700. Bloods have to be sent to the lab the same day. Nurses only work weekdays.

    The arrangements we have is to have pre-med, bloods and audio done the same day.

    We have asked for it to be looked in if, for example it could be looked into that we could do the pre-med etc on a weekend (as there are medics there).

    I've suggested that we be met half way (pre-meds on a weekend and medical during week)

    If the Government wants to treat me as a part time employee! I'm a volunteer!

  15. #4537
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    All good points. BUT Medical Corps in all places need to address the Single Force concept too and recognize that part of that is providing services when all DF members are in attendance, including RDF and not just PDF . PDF Armourers are available when we do ARPs - I do not see why certain cohorts in the PDF refuse to acknowledge that were already breaking our bollocks to meet RDF commitments as it is. For example, Medicals in certain locations, Gyms in certain locations, and Driver testing boards in nearly all locations - its like evenings and weekends dont exist.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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  17. #4538
    Lt General Barry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F_M View Post
    It's a part-time job.
    Ahahahahaha. Jobs pay for every hour worked. If you look at the RDF as a job then it's a worse deal than a jobbridge.

    Not everyone can just take a day off from their job (their actual civvy job that pays the bills) at will, a lot of people will have to take holidays from work to attend FTT. If someone has the option of either taking two days holidays to do a RDF medical or to save those holidays to go away with their family do you really think that they should tell their family to stick it?

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  19. #4539
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    All good points. BUT Medical Corps in all places need to address the Single Force concept too and recognize that part of that is providing services when all DF members are in attendance, including RDF and not just PDF . PDF Armourers are available when we do ARPs - I do not see why certain cohorts in the PDF refuse to acknowledge that were already breaking our bollocks to meet RDF commitments as it is. For example, Medicals in certain locations, Gyms in certain locations, and Driver testing boards in nearly all locations - its like evenings and weekends dont exist.
    In fairness, some in the PDF are helping by coming in to instruct / conduct IT at weekends but the RDF aren't helping our argument by turning up in low numbers.

    By the way, there is now a RDF PTI and a RDF driving tester (who earned the qualifications in the RDF).

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  21. #4540
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    also on the recent Ex, on the days done in the barracks prior to going out on the ground (lessons and ramp up training) RDF members worked the same hours as the PDF - i.e. for the first time ever we had Acres of time off in the evenings rather than like on camp where you started at 7 and finished at 8 / 9pm or later in some cases.
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

  22. #4541
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    It is hard for me to take even my holidays due to work pressures
    If I have a day off it is spend on family holidays or RDF.

    I work M-F 0830-1700. Bloods have to be sent to the lab the same day. Nurses only work weekdays.

    The arrangements we have is to have pre-med, bloods and audio done the same day.

    We have asked for it to be looked in if, for example it could be looked into that we could do the pre-med etc on a weekend (as there are medics there).

    I've suggested that we be met half way (pre-meds on a weekend and medical during week)

    If the Government wants to treat me as a part time employee! I'm a volunteer!
    Correction on the bloods, they can't be held in the fridge overnight at the MMF (so bloods must be done Monday-Thursday)

  23. #4542
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    Quote Originally Posted by F_M View Post
    If you view the Reserve as a hobby, then you will always have problems. It's a part-time job.
    And therein lies the problem.

    I'm not a part time employee of the DF. I'm a volunteer. A volunteer to that's expected to be professional, but not be a professional. The DF wants to have their cake and to eat it too.

    As it stands, as I sit in my office, if the COS walked in right now and told me to step outside to attention, I can quite happily tell him to do one. I'm not on the DF clock until I want to be (notwithstanding a mass mobilisation by the government), and once I am, it's a grey area over when I can clock off.

    Now I'm not saying that because I'm prick (although I am one). I can say that because that's the RDF that the DF/DoD have built. They've made it a hobby to be picked up and dropped freely, with minimal responsibility or accountability for those who participate within it.

    If you want to guarantee the availability and quality of Reservists, you need to make them a proper part time component of the DF. That means the same pay and entitlements as the PDF on a part time basis.

    Then and only then you might have some entitlement to tell me when I should take time off my real job that does it's bit to lubricate the economy, to waste a whole or half day sitting in Bricins to complete a medical that I'm sure my GP could do in 30 minutes.

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  25. #4543
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    Medicals done by the DF are for the eyesof the DF only. An employer will notget access to them no matter what permissions you sign. So employer, who need to, must do their own seperate medicals for their employees.

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  27. #4544
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Correction on the bloods, they can't be held in the fridge overnight at the MMF (so bloods must be done Monday-Thursday)
    correction to your correction............well a slight correction.
    One of the blood tests is for thyroid. If not done within a couple of hours it gives the wrong result. So bloods have less than 5 hours storage time. Well that is if you want accurate results.

    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftandSure View Post
    Now I'm not saying that because I'm prick (although I am one). I can say that because that's the RDF that the DF/DoD have built. They've made it a hobby to be picked up and dropped freely, with minimal responsibility or accountability for those who participate within it.
    Part of me wants to agree with you but then there are KPIs. What hobby says if you dont perform then you are not allowed participate?

    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftandSure View Post
    If you want to guarantee the availability and quality of Reservists, you need to make them a proper part time component of the DF. That means the same pay and entitlements as the PDF on a part time basis.
    Such an old arguement which never holds up.
    IF it were true then there wouldn't be a single member of the RDF. Yet there are a couple of thousand.
    Yes if you made it a parttime job I am sure you would get more lads in.
    The ones in now, generally, love what they do and give it as much as they can because they can.
    Turn it into a part time job and you will get the lads that need the money.
    The lads that will be looking for the overtime rate.
    The college lads that needs the drinking money but will does as little as possible.
    Yes the die hards will remain but would the reserve be a better place?

    Quote Originally Posted by madden View Post
    Medicals done by the DF are for the eyesof the DF only. An employer will notget access to them no matter what permissions you sign. So employer, who need to, must do their own seperate medicals for their employees.
    Firstly you are entitled to see and take a copy of any written medical record that is made about you.
    I found this out at the VHI clinic. They gave me a disc with x-rays and doctors report. I was surprised and asked the doc why was I getting it. He told me that it was a legal obligation. If some thing happens later you must be in a position to inform your doctor about your recent medical history.
    I can see no reason why the DF, who employs loads of civvi doctors and agency nurses would thik they are outside the law.

    Secondly the medical professional freely share info. I know as Bricinc has a letter from the VHI consultant which is in addition to the information on the disc. Do you really think that this information is not a two way thing?

  28. #4545
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saab View Post
    correction to your correction............well a slight correction.
    One of the blood tests is for thyroid. If not done within a couple of hours it gives the wrong result. So bloods have less than 5 hours storage time. Well that is if you want accurate results.
    It could be the particular test I was getting

    What hobby says if you dont perform then you are not allowed participate?
    Reword slightly and you have most competitive sports
    Firstly you are entitled to see and take a copy of any written medical record that is made about you.
    I found this out at the VHI clinic. They gave me a disc with x-rays and doctors report. I was surprised and asked the doc why was I getting it. He told me that it was a legal obligation. If some thing happens later you must be in a position to inform your doctor about your recent medical history.
    I can see no reason why the DF, who employs loads of civvi doctors and agency nurses would thik they are outside the law.

    Secondly the medical professional freely share info. I know as Bricinc has a letter from the VHI consultant which is in addition to the information on the disc. Do you really think that this information is not a two way thing?
    It would I'm sure be a medico-legal matter but as far as the DF is concerned you may not have a GP (as a PDF member may have to go to sick parade rather than going to their GP.

  29. #4546
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saab View Post
    Part of me wants to agree with you but then there are KPIs. What hobby says if you dont perform then you are not allowed participate?
    Introducing KPIs while removing the performance incentive payment (gratuity) and not addressing any issues regarding poor retention meant that meeting KPIs would be like gouging the eyes out of a cripple trying to play rugby alongside the All Blacks and expecting him to score a try against the Springboks with no handicap.

    KPIs are merely a stick to beat us with. I doubt the average Reservist cares about their individual KPIs.

    Such an old arguement which never holds up.
    IF it were true then there wouldn't be a single member of the RDF. Yet there are a couple of thousand.
    Yes if you made it a parttime job I am sure you would get more lads in.
    The ones in now, generally, love what they do and give it as much as they can because they can.
    Turn it into a part time job and you will get the lads that need the money.
    The lads that will be looking for the overtime rate.
    The college lads that needs the drinking money but will does as little as possible.
    Yes the die hards will remain but would the reserve be a better place?
    You may as well replace the words "die hard" with "hobbyist". Those who want to be there for the fun of it, will be there, those who want to be paid will be there too. I generally don't care why people come to train, as long as they're there. Not having bodies hampers collective training, which affects our effectiveness as a unit.

    What remuneration does is aid the regulation of the RDF; you're more likely to be held to account if you're not performing while being paid.

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  31. #4547
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    Quote Originally Posted by madden View Post
    Medicals done by the DF are for the eyesof the DF only. An employer will notget access to them no matter what permissions you sign. So employer, who need to, must do their own seperate medicals for their employees.
    Does not FOI apply.

  32. #4548
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Except the doctor in our place isn't paid by medical he gets a daily rate

  33. #4549
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saab View Post
    Firstly you are entitled to see and take a copy of any written medical record that is made about you.
    I found this out at the VHI clinic. They gave me a disc with x-rays and doctors report. I was surprised and asked the doc why was I getting it. He told me that it was a legal obligation. If some thing happens later you must be in a position to inform your doctor about your recent medical history.
    I can see no reason why the DF, who employs loads of civvi doctors and agency nurses would thik they are outside the law.

    Secondly the medical professional freely share info. I know as Bricinc has a letter from the VHI consultant which is in addition to the information on the disc. Do you really think that this information is not a two way thing?
    There is no legal obligation for an doctor to give you medical records automatically. You can ask for them and they will give them to you, but they do not have to give them automatically if you don't ask for them.

    They are obliged to discuss them with you and point out anything that is of concern. Doctors do NOT freely share info with one another except in certain circumstances - it is illegal to do so. With your permission is another matter however.

    The DF does not operate outside the law - they operate within it, but when you are filling in your medical history form each year, you also sign several permissions etc. The DF is NOT obliged to share info with civilian doctors but may choose to in certain circumstances with your permission.

    Date Protection does apply, as does FOI - you can get copies of your medical records but will usually have to follow the FOI procedure.

  34. #4550
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    FOI only applies to material held by agencies of the state. GPs would only supply records on foot of a suponea from a court. FOI doesn't automatially mean anyone can access anothers records. There must be just cause for access and it can be refused.
    Time for another break I think......

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