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Pay issues have NOT been abounding ( well not in my unit anyway ) , rumours of course >cancellations< have indeed but courses that are authorized are paid.
Usually it takes 3-4 weeks from submission of the authorized 539 ? (prob wrong number form there ) before pay goes out, therefore you need to submit 3-4 weeks before the course i
There was rumours that certain courses were been run over 2 weeks with only 1 week paid. I believe if you search IMO you will find a discussion about it.
People on the PNCO crse have been hearing rumours about pay difficulties since April.
They have been told it is not an issue but still the rumours remain.
Rex is correct. But who allowed PDFORRA ballot on it ? And why weren't RDFRA balloted ? We are paid by the DOD same as the PDF.
That would probably be something to do with it being our job where the RDF serve as volunteers who paid a grat to compensate them for their commitment, but the very fact that you get a gratuity rather than pay, and the Authorities do not acknowledge RDF members as employees, explains why you do not get a vote on the Croke Park Agreement. Thats besides the unfairness of the possibility that RDF pers could get a vote as a member of RDFRA, and a vote in the union of their full time employment
As the frog says, we get paid, as do the PDF, for our full time service, we do indeed get a grat, just like the PDF do.
As far as "it's our job" goes, so what ? PDFORRA is only a representative association, just like RDFRA, which (PDFORRA) has been specifically forbidden to affiliate to ICTU if I recall correctly, so balloting on whether the PS Committee of ICTU should ratify the Croke Park deal seems somewhat specious to me.
For the week or two that ye do a year.The Croke park deal affects our terms and conditions of service. IE wheather or not we get sick pay after a certain time if out on long term sick leave due to a serious illness or injury,wheather or not we can/will be transferred to another Bks on the far side of the country if they are short Bodies,thus affecting families and spouses jobs etc,wheather or not we will ever see back the money that was taken off us,which took us(the lowest paid public servants yet most efficient) years of negotiating to get.Wheather or not families who have been forced to go on FIS can come off it or not.
None of those issues affect the RDF.(Maybe they do in your civvie lives ,i hope they dont!)
No RDF member is gonna be detailed to up sticks and move etc etc.So tell me again why ye should have had a vote on the defence portion of the deal???
Ps: Make your minds up.Which are ye?"Volunteers" that shouldnt be expected to conform to the same standards of the PDF.Or "part time soldiers" with all that entails.Ye cant even decide that amongst the members here.
"Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.
Going by the rates on military.ie, gets paid more than me (being a high paid Private sector worker!)
Slagging aside.
Any change in sick leave pay due to injury would aplly to RDF members if it happened on full time training I think
In terms of being sent off to different places of work. Its the DF. If thats whats required thats whats required. Don't see people complaining when they have to head off to Chad a couple of thousand miles away yet here there's moaning about moving a max 250miles at worst.
As for
Ps: Make your minds up.Which are ye?"Volunteers" that shouldnt be expected to conform to the same standards of the PDF.Or "part time soldiers" with all that entails.Ye cant even decide that amongst the members here.
The Minister for Defence makes that call. His call is to say we are "Volunteers" yet pay us for completing training and issue P60s for paying tax on the pay.
"The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"
Don't see people complaining when they have to head off to Chad a couple of thousand miles away yet here there's moaning about moving a max 250miles at worst.
Plenty of people are not happy to be detailed for Overseas at a time that does not suite them, however they go because thats the job, and while it affects the family this is a temporary effect.
Posting someone to another Bks entails either long distance commuting for the rest of your Army career, or moving the family, lock stock and barrel, to the new location with all that entails.
If the DF wants to go down that route they had better get used to supplying housing for soldiers and their families. This is what armies who regularly move their pers. around do e.g. British/US Armies that a few of the Walters on this site seem to think the Irish Army should aspire to be. While this may be an admirable goal, training and equipment wise, the Government will never spend the money required for the simple human support needed for their troops should they continue to want to ape the British model
Though I think I earn less than him.(as a PS worker).
That would depend on how long you are in the job and at what point on the pay scale you are at.Your rank/grade would also come into it.Compared to the other sectors of the public service we are the lowest paid.Yet we are the last line of defence for the public when everyone else goes on strike(even though we might agree in our hearts with the principals behind the strike).It makes me sick and makes me laugh at the same time.We got slated in the Tribune last weekend and on the Joe Duffy show yet no one was slating us when their houses needed sandbagging or the lifts in the Ballymun flats refused to work.FFS One texter to Newstalk one morning even called for us to deploy to sort out the Passport office strike.
Going by the rates on military.ie, gets paid more than me (being a high paid Private sector worker!)
Slagging aside.
Any change in sick leave pay due to injury would aplly to RDF members if it happened on full time training I think
In terms of being sent off to different places of work. Its the DF. If thats whats required thats whats required. Don't see people complaining when they have to head off to Chad a couple of thousand miles away yet here there's moaning about moving a max 250miles at worst.
As for
The Minister for Defence makes that call. His call is to say we are "Volunteers" yet pay us for completing training and issue P60s for paying tax on the pay.
Its not often i would take a totally different view to you Zulu but get real.Comparing getting transferred against your will away from a unit that you probably served your entire career with and having to move your family home ,change your kids school thus taking them away from everything they have ever known including extended family is NOT the same as volunteering to serve overseas.For starters your family stays put and is still where you left them when you get back.Big BIG difference.Thanks to the money grabbers in PDFORRA we have given away most of the terms of our contracts regarding transfers down through the years for successive pay deals.The irony is the money that was given in return for our co-operation has been taken away.
As for the volunteers issue.The Minister can say what he likes to suit his argument.As can many here.I have read and read post after post from some here who dont want to give up the old FCA culture and claim they are "Volunteers".I have also read the counter arguments(including yours) about seeking to better themselves and the organisation by raising their standards to the "part time soldier level ALA the TA or National Guard.
Whats it gonna be folks???
"Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.
Posting someone to another Bks entails either long distance commuting for the rest of your Army career, or moving the family, lock stock and barrel, to the new location with all that entails.
If the DF wants to go down that route they had better get used to supplying housing for soldiers and their families. This is what armies who regularly move their pers. around do e.g. British/US Armies that a few of the Walters on this site seem to think the Irish Army should aspire to be. While this may be an admirable goal, training and equipment wise, the Government will never spend the money required for the simple human support needed for their troops should they continue to want to ape the British model
I'll admit I'm biased as I have close friends serving in the US who are subject to transfer/overseas on a regular basis. Granted , I understand your point regarding housing.
I recognise the difficulties in what a move would entail, but at the end of the day - if required, its part of job and what people signed up for in "a life less ordinary"
"The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"
I'll admit I'm biased as I have close friends serving in the US who are subject to transfer/overseas on a regular basis. Granted , I understand your point regarding housing.
I recognise the difficulties in what a move would entail, but at the end of the day - if required, its part of job and what people signed up for in "a life less ordinary"
This is not part of the job i signed up for, nor anyone else, that is why they are trying to change it!
I'll admit I'm biased as I have close friends serving in the US who are subject to transfer/overseas on a regular basis. Granted , I understand your point regarding housing.
I recognise the difficulties in what a move would entail, but at the end of the day - if required, its part of job and what people signed up for in "a life less ordinary"
I would love to hear what you would have to say if you were faced with the same prospect.Oh and having your pay stopped if you are out on sick leave for a year or more,notwithstanding the fact taht you may have gotten the injury or illness whilst serving.Good luck paying the mortgage ,creche,car payments,insurance etc after that.Its always OK once its happening to someone else isnt it?As i said i dont normally disagree with you Zulu but in this case you shouldnt be so flippant about what are peoples lives and livelihoods.There was nothing in my contract when i signed it about being moved around.In fact our contracts protected us from that once you had served ten years or more.Thats gone now thanks to the money grabbing 65 weeks grat heads.
"Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.
Pay issues have NOT been abounding ( well not in my unit anyway ) , rumours of course >cancellations< have indeed but courses that are authorized are paid.
It happens all the time sure! Wrong name / number, pay roll changes not done in time, ke person on leave, confusion on allocation of mandays, software problems etc etc.
Another rumour about that course is that they are getting it easy to try and have them all pass so that they can be held up as an example of the "excellence of training" in the RDF.
Dont mean to come across ignorant but I would have thought that being moved around the place would simply be part of the job.
Nope! When I joined in '86 i was asked was I prepared to serve where I was posted, this was where your unit on completion of training would be, end of movement unless you look for a transfer, for promotion etc. This is the way things were and over the last 10 years the DF have been trying to change this
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