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  • Originally posted by Auldsod View Post
    If there is no requirement for career courses for promotion, what's the point of them at all. I think they should be mandatory.
    +1. Current promotion system in the RDF is a joke.
    At the very least it would ensure that someone going for promotion has a base level of skills that they need to perform the duties that come with the rank they are hopeful of promoting into.
    "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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    • Originally posted by batterysgt View Post
      Dfr R5 allows rdf to be promoted to Lt Col with only pot nco cse and pot officers and most I know think that's perfectly fine. I have missed out on promotion due to this by an individual promoted to a higher rank without a snr NCOs cse done. What is the feeling of RDF personnel on here. Should you have given the time to attend and pass these courses or just attend on training on nights only to be promoted?
      Should be mandatory

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      • I dont think its black and white at more senior ranks. I think experiential training is important to credit also. For example 2 2 corporals, absentee senior ncos. 1 cpl looks out for himself and has the boxes ticked, but does nothing outside of that. The other is filling the role of the seniors, running the training, meeting his kpis but missing the one box? Who do you promote? The guy whos good on paper but no good in reality of vice versa? I agree we need people doing career courses, but a holistic view is important when promoting. Once the decision is made, it shapes a unit for a long time after. Also i recognise i know f all about the ar side here and how much real world value there is in their career courses vs skills courses and exercises.
        Last edited by AC182; 27 July 2019, 17:47.
        Scheduled fun will commence at 1900Hrs.
        Punishment beatings will continue until moral improves.

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        • Originally posted by AC182 View Post
          I dont think its black and white at more senior ranks. I think experiential training is important to credit also. For example 2 2 corporals, absentee senior ncos. 1 cpl looks out for himself and has the boxes ticked, but does nothing outside of that. The other is filling the role of the seniors, running the training, meeting his kpis but missing the one box? Who do you promote? The guy whos good on paper but no good in reality of vice versa? I agree we need people doing career courses, but a holistic view is important when promoting. Once the decision is made, it shapes a unit for a long time after. Also i recognise i know f all about the ar side here and how much real world value there is in their career courses vs skills courses and exercises.
          He’s had a number of years to tick that missing box

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          • Originally posted by DeV View Post
            He’s had a number of years to tick that missing box
            100% agree. You can be doing everything for the unit but you need to look after your own career and get career courses under your belt.

            Would you make Sergeant without a standard nco's course in the pdf? Would you make Commandant without the staff course. I honestly haven't a clue of the regulations but I think not. Single force concept. Even if R5 is full of gaps and loopholes, that doesn't meant we can't aspire to achieving the same standard in the limited circumstances where we can.

            I do appreciate there may be units with gaps at the top and often these courses only run every few years but still. Anyone who is sergeant or above will be in a while.
            Last edited by Auldsod; 27 July 2019, 19:45.

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            • Originally posted by AC182 View Post
              I dont think its black and white at more senior ranks. I think experiential training is important to credit also. For example 2 2 corporals, absentee senior ncos. 1 cpl looks out for himself and has the boxes ticked, but does nothing outside of that. The other is filling the role of the seniors, running the training, meeting his kpis but missing the one box? Who do you promote? The guy whos good on paper but no good in reality of vice versa? I agree we need people doing career courses, but a holistic view is important when promoting. Once the decision is made, it shapes a unit for a long time after. Also i recognise i know f all about the ar side here and how much real world value there is in their career courses vs skills courses and exercises.
              Should have multi quoted but on a mobile! I'm open to be clarified by someone who knows R5 better than me but if there is a vacant position, let's say at sergeant. One good corporal hasn't the course done. One fella who is as useful as a chocolate teapot has the standards course done. Don't promote the potato. Wait until there is standards course. Put the goody on it. Promote. Better than having a useless senior nco around the unit until retirement. Feel free to clarify if this isn't possible.

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              • I have pots, standard, Pot Officer, YOs and Standard Officer done, more than all bar a very small number of RDF officers plus a very large amount of experience working very closely with the PDF but I remain anchored firmly to my class commissioning date. In a year and a bit the field opens up for the first time and I will have five or six years to try for the last couple of ranks but its not likely beyond one more and then gone .

                Do the damn career courses get off bums and do the pt , you cant win the lotto without buying a ticket and thats the price of entry

                ,
                "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                Comment


                • Dfr R5 allows rdf to be promoted to Lt Col with only pot nco cse and pot officers and most I know think that's perfectly fine. I have missed out on promotion due to this by an individual promoted to a higher rank without a snr NCOs cse done. What is the feeling of RDF personnel on here. Should you have given the time to attend and pass these courses or just attend on training on nights only to be promoted?
                  In answer to the substantive question it should be perfectly possible to redress based on courses done if the board had any kind of balls on a proper review of 667s as the file review should count for 75% and interview the other 25% or whatever and this should be published in the ad for the promotion competition . By that token a logs admin for Q or SNCO for CS or BS or whatever should count and then when all the scores are added the order of merit should speak for itself.
                  "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                  "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Auldsod View Post
                    Should have multi quoted but on a mobile! I'm open to be clarified by someone who knows R5 better than me but if there is a vacant position, let's say at sergeant. One good corporal hasn't the course done. One fella who is as useful as a chocolate teapot has the standards course done. Don't promote the potato. Wait until there is standards course. Put the goody on it. Promote. Better than having a useless senior nco around the unit until retirement. Feel free to clarify if this isn't possible.
                    Likely it will end up with RDFRA or redress. I agree you should only be promoted if you have the courses done. The OCs should be doing proper performance appraisals, 667s and 451s. It's the OCs who recommend or not and you must have that recommendation to be in anyway considered for the next rank. They need the bottle to say I'm not recommending you because of x y and z but it rearly happens.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by trellheim View Post
                      In answer to the substantive question it should be perfectly possible to redress based on courses done if the board had any kind of balls on a proper review of 667s as the file review should count for 75% and interview the other 25% or whatever and this should be published in the ad for the promotion competition . By that token a logs admin for Q or SNCO for CS or BS or whatever should count and then when all the scores are added the order of merit should speak for itself.
                      We don't get 667s annually. How many rdf here get an annual 667 from their company commander or OC each year?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by batterysgt View Post
                        We don't get 667s annually. How many rdf here get an annual 667 from their company commander or OC each year?
                        As per DFR R5 and AI R5, there is no requirement for a 667 (unlike 451s for Officers).

                        A special 667 is required for promotion to SNCO rank

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                          As per DFR R5 and AI R5, there is no requirement for a 667 (unlike 451s for Officers).

                          A special 667 is required for promotion to SNCO rank
                          My point is we should all get them, nco and officers, every year. It would improve the situation we have of the wrong people getting promoted and bringing the org down even more.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by batterysgt View Post
                            Dfr R5 allows rdf to be promoted to Lt Col with only pot nco cse and pot officers and most I know think that's perfectly fine. I have missed out on promotion due to this by an individual promoted to a higher rank without a snr NCOs cse done. What is the feeling of RDF personnel on here. Should you have given the time to attend and pass these courses or just attend on training on nights only to be promoted?
                            Did you have said Snr NCO Cse done? If so, you have grounds for redress that the other individual (without the course done) got the bump up ahead of you, especially if you were an applicant for the promotion yourself...
                            "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by batterysgt View Post
                              We don't get 667s annually. How many rdf here get an annual 667 from their company commander or OC each year?
                              I have done, for the last couple of years
                              "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

                              Comment


                              • A few suggestions for improvement.

                                1/ Annual reports for ALL RDF personnel based on the competencies looked for under the current PDF promotion system.
                                2/ Points system for selection for career courses.Again based on the PDF system but tailored for the RDF Eg: A half point for a weeks normal FTT and a full point for any course longer than a week.
                                3/ Mandatory career course requirement for full promotion or acting rank.
                                4/ An RDF "Annex XYZ". IE a list of the various appointments and the various skills courses you MUST complete IOT to fill them.
                                5/ Merit based promotion system based on the core competencies.

                                That might go someway to ensuring competency in the Rank and would over time weed out the cowboy attitude that exists now in some units.

                                PS: To answer a question above. NO. You cannot be promoted in the PDF without having completed the relevant career and skills courses along with having a proven record of service.You cannot be made acting(paid) either unless you have the career course completed. You can receive substitution allowance if you are performing the duties of a higher rank but you don't have the career course completed and there is no one else who is qualified to do so.This does not entitle you to wear the higher rank of be referred to by that rank.
                                "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

                                Comment

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