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  • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
    My first introduction to automated chart systems, whereby charts were updated by an Admiralty CD, was about 1992. They were the old rasterscan charts provided by the Admiralty known as the ARCS system. The navigator loaded his own corrections which for want of a better description reprinted as new all charts registered to the ship and known to Chart Agent. Military vessels and systems at the time also used a system known as Link 11. It allowed units, including units in dynamic situations, to interchange operational information. The current free to air cannot be secure unless some way is found to control inputs, corral them, classify them, and reject trash.
    Call me old fashioned but I still prefer a paper backup showing all chart corrections since chart was issued. Even an electronic backup of same, with active notices to mariners etc.
    For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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    • As the Irish Examiner has documented in recent months, a manpower crisis affecting the naval service has seen a number of vessels unable to go out on patrol.

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      • Given that the head of MAOC is M. Sullivan an irish ex-Garda, and that Ireland has a history of successful interdictions on drugs and arms, we are most likely to be asked by his organisation to act more in the surveillance role to deter use of subsurface means of smuggling. It is something that we say we do, however to be effective it needs to be more sustained and continuous, much as the inputs by the US and Brits, and maybe Dutch, in Caribbean area patrols by surface units and helicopters, where cigarette boats and submersibles are in regular use. Possibly we need to increase the size of patrol area by the MPA's to increase first contacts of illegal activity and brush up our ASW.

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        • The term "narco-sub" is misleading. It isn't a sub, it is more like a cigarette boat, with a tiny surface profile from the helm cockpit. The remainder of the hull remains below the surface. The vessel leaves a considerable wake, not to mention engine and exhaust IR signature.

          The Key to monitoring and detection is from the air, either from Long Range MPA with high end electro optics, Ship based helis or UAV with the same optics.
          But you have to be there first.
          For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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          • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
            The term "narco-sub" is misleading. It isn't a sub, it is more like a cigarette boat, with a tiny surface profile from the helm cockpit. The remainder of the hull remains below the surface. The vessel leaves a considerable wake, not to mention engine and exhaust IR signature.

            The Key to monitoring and detection is from the air, either from Long Range MPA with high end electro optics, Ship based helis or UAV with the same optics.
            But you have to be there first.
            It is a description for a craft with minimal freeboard and is semi-submersed consequentially. This one had a crew of 3, of which 2 Ecuadorians were captured and one absconded free. The vessel is about 68feet long and 7 feet wide in the amidships. They were 20 days at sea and couldn't transfer the loot due to sea conditions. The conundrum is, based on 2000m range, how did its voyage begin, was it initially towed by another vessel, did it enter another port with a mother ship, to prepare the boat and its crew for the final approach to Spain. Given the Industry might and value in many billions, we can expect more of the same. The cartels could afford to build or buy a real submarine, the only difficulty is putting together an experienced crew. Money won't be a drawback for further attempts.

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            • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
              It is a description for a craft with minimal freeboard and is semi-submersed consequentially. This one had a crew of 3, of which 2 Ecuadorians were captured and one absconded free. The vessel is about 68feet long and 7 feet wide in the amidships. They were 20 days at sea and couldn't transfer the loot due to sea conditions. The conundrum is, based on 2000m range, how did its voyage begin, was it initially towed by another vessel, did it enter another port with a mother ship, to prepare the boat and its crew for the final approach to Spain. Given the Industry might and value in many billions, we can expect more of the same. The cartels could afford to build or buy a real submarine, the only difficulty is putting together an experienced crew. Money won't be a drawback for further attempts.
              There have been some "true" submarines found already but it is not known if any have entered service. What is clear that it is not too difficult to build them, even in Europe some people have built them in their back yards. As for experienced crews that should not be an issue, Columbia, Venezuela, Peru and Ecuador all have submarines in their navies so buying a crew is possible.

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              • The South American’s manage to build them in the middle of the Jungle

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                • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                  The South American’s manage to build them in the middle of the Jungle

                  https://youtu.be/yqYoif-9c64
                  Well done. An Oscar for that one.

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                  • accept no substitute:
                    "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
                    Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
                    Illegitimi non carborundum

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                    • This looks like a useful upgrade to the P60s, should the will be there. I know the mast is already designed to take an air search radar, 4D would be a huge improvement.


                      For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                      • [QUOTE=na grohmiti;482200]This looks like a useful upgrade to the P60s, should the will be there. I know the mast is already designed to take an air search radar, 4D would be a huge improvement.


                        I think we certainly should advance our technology to do the things expected of us. Electronic Scanned Array radars are a good aid and certainly should be fitted on the MRV as a defensive measure coupled with modern CIWS elements. A refit to p60's should be considered. Do we have an attendance at Naval Industry Shows. Can anyone confirm that P51 is again heading for drydock?

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                        • [ancientmariner

                          I think we certainly should advance our technology to do the things expected of us. Electronic Scanned Array radars are a good aid and certainly should be fitted on the MRV as a defensive measure coupled with modern CIWS elements. A refit to p60's should be considered. Do we have an attendance at Naval Industry Shows. Can anyone confirm that P51 is again heading for drydock?[/QUOTE]

                          On World navy News there is a piece on the delivery of the first of 8 x 15m Officer training craft for the RN. The delivery was from Atlas Electronik UK.
                          The Aeuk design features a 13 person workspace with PC work stations and shock mitigation seating. There is a briefing area with screen for displaying charts and navigation data. There is a recreational area, IMO navigation suite compatible with RN surface fleet. Berths , wet room, heads, comprehensive galley improves operational range and capability. The boat can be used in a various range of modes to meet specific requirements. Very useable for both School and reserve training. Safhaven Youghal have some connect with Atlas Electronik.

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                          • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                            [ancientmariner

                            I think we certainly should advance our technology to do the things expected of us. Electronic Scanned Array radars are a good aid and certainly should be fitted on the MRV as a defensive measure coupled with modern CIWS elements. A refit to p60's should be considered. Do we have an attendance at Naval Industry Shows. Can anyone confirm that P51 is again heading for drydock?
                            On World navy News there is a piece on the delivery of the first of 8 x 15m Officer training craft for the RN. The delivery was from Atlas Electronik UK.
                            The Aeuk design features a 13 person workspace with PC work stations and shock mitigation seating. There is a briefing area with screen for displaying charts and navigation data. There is a recreational area, IMO navigation suite compatible with RN surface fleet. Berths , wet room, heads, comprehensive galley improves operational range and capability. The boat can be used in a various range of modes to meet specific requirements. Very useable for both School and reserve training. Safhaven Youghal have some connect with Atlas Electronik.[/QUOTE]

                            At this stage the UK Shipbuilding Yards have built an evolving class of OPV vessels for both home use and for export. The trend has been to make later "Batches" more warship to fill the duties of local intervention. Think Defence.co.uk have an interesting paper by an Engineer K. Campbell on " Some thoughts on the Batch2 River Class" It is possible several of the enhancements are already included in our P60 class. The points to note are the Flight Deck and weight of a range of helicopters to be accommodated have a significant requirement for provision of necessary Hull strength. I don't agree with him that moving from 2 x 25mm guns to 2 x MK.44 Gatling 7.62mm guns is defensively sufficient. He mentions that our 76mm gun is only a Fishery deterrent and implies it is short of what is needed to meet possible aspirations. In passing our MRV armament and Defence suite needs early consideration. The typical combat logs ships have 2x CIWS, 2x 25/30mm, several HMG/LMG guns, a missile fitted for system, and all necessary CMS and Wide Area Search systems.

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                            • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post

                              I think we certainly should advance our technology to do the things expected of us. Electronic Scanned Array radars are a good aid and certainly should be fitted on the MRV as a defensive measure coupled with modern CIWS elements. A refit to p60's should be considered. Do we have an attendance at Naval Industry Shows. Can anyone confirm that P51 is again heading for drydock?
                              One of the P60s went to an arms show and the left went mad

                              On World navy News there is a piece on the delivery of the first of 8 x 15m Officer training craft for the RN. The delivery was from Atlas Electronik UK.
                              The Aeuk design features a 13 person workspace with PC work stations and shock mitigation seating. There is a briefing area with screen for displaying charts and navigation data. There is a recreational area, IMO navigation suite compatible with RN surface fleet. Berths , wet room, heads, comprehensive galley improves operational range and capability. The boat can be used in a various range of modes to meet specific requirements. Very useable for both School and reserve training. Safhaven Youghal have some connect with Atlas Electronik.
                              But of little use for anything but training

                              Dorset-based maritime technology company ATLAS ELEKTRONIK UK (AEUK) has delivered the First of Class 15m Officer Training Boat (OTB) to the Britannia Royal Naval College (BRNC) in Dartmouth. This is the first of eight OTBs to be delivered under a major contract placed with AEUK in 2017 for the supply and support of up to 38 Workboats for the UK MOD over a six year period.




                              At this stage the UK Shipbuilding Yards have built an evolving class of OPV vessels for both home use and for export. The trend has been to make later "Batches" more warship to fill the duties of local intervention. Think Defence.co.uk have an interesting paper by an Engineer K. Campbell on " Some thoughts on the Batch2 River Class" It is possible several of the enhancements are already included in our P60 class. The points to note are the Flight Deck and weight of a range of helicopters to be accommodated have a significant requirement for provision of necessary Hull strength. I don't agree with him that moving from 2 x 25mm guns to 2 x MK.44 Gatling 7.62mm guns is defensively sufficient. He mentions that our 76mm gun is only a Fishery deterrent and implies it is short of what is needed to meet possible aspirations. In passing our MRV armament and Defence suite needs early consideration. The typical combat logs ships have 2x CIWS, 2x 25/30mm, several HMG/LMG guns, a missile fitted for system, and all necessary CMS and Wide Area Search systems.
                              GUEST POST FROM KEITH CAMPBELL Since the first information was published about the second batch of the River-class patrol ships, officially referred to as Offshore Patrol Vessels (OPVs), I have fel…

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                              • On a slightly related note, the RN is planning to upgrade its Legacy 20mm Oerlikon/GAM-B01, GCM-AO3 Twin 30mm and Oerlikon 30mm cannon to 30mm Chain gun on the DS30M mk 2 platform, as seen on the more recent River Batch 2s. This uses the 30MM Mk 44 Bushmaster cannon, which is in use elsewhere in the Irish Defence Forces. Perhaps we could consider similar when it's time for the Rhino to go? Seems suitable given where the Rhino are currently mounted on the P50s and P60s.

                                Also, the Dutch Navy are to retire the Goalkeeper CIWS from service by 2025, replacing it with RIM116 RAM combined with DART guided projectile fired from an OTO Melara 76mm.
                                For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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