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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Not forgetting maintenance heavy means personnel required
    The Navy must know what it NEEDS and not be led or cajoled by Ordnance Corps or DOD. 30mm armament is ok if it is in a 360deg format with two or more controlled units and backed up with a missile system. Spare L70 should be vehicle mounted to be deployable at any location in the country, assuming that ammunition is available.
    It struck me, with ports in short supply we need to identify withdrawal locations for our ships in times of emergency- Killary harbour etc.

  2. #27
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    The Navy must know what it NEEDS and not be led or cajoled by Ordnance Corps or DOD. 30mm armament is ok if it is in a 360deg format with two or more controlled units and backed up with a missile system. Spare L70 should be vehicle mounted to be deployable at any location in the country, assuming that ammunition is available.
    It struck me, with ports in short supply we need to identify withdrawal locations for our ships in times of emergency- Killary harbour etc.
    Disagree with L40/70 s being available in any format. If we begin to become amenable to retrograde equipment we may fall victim to our own shortsightedness. The willingness to adapt and modify has always been our down fall...World War two equipment still in use up to the 1970s in some cases becauses someone repeatedly refused to go out on a limb and discard it.

    Too many stop gap arrangement in place, if someone in Naval Planning decreees with justifable back up that we need a 30mm turret with missile capability, there should be no step back until it is achieved.
    Time for another break I think......

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  4. #28
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    no one there to clean them ...oh wait loads of junior officers...

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  6. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    Disagree with L40/70 s being available in any format.

    Too many stop gap arrangement in place, if someone in Naval Planning decreees with justifable back up that we need a 30mm turret with missile capability, there should be no step back until it is achieved.
    Just surmising that other budget restricted combatants stick fairly big calibre units onto trucks and use them in multirole su/air modes. Possibly better than NOT getting any potential from them. In 2019 terms if you spend 60m plus on ships you must invest in it's Defence . The doctrine on Close in Defence requires controlled high rates of fire and missile systems . We should also add elements of offence such as support fire by a higher calibre weapon and NSM. Some systems on offer are more easily retrofitted and do not need deck penetrations . Matters are easier if the correct type of Radars are fitted at the outset to provide tracking and FC data. A bit like buying the cot when you know a baby is due!!

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  8. #30
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Just surmising that other budget restricted combatants stick fairly big calibre units onto trucks and use them in multirole su/air modes
    Third world 'technicals' are a far cry from wheel based artillery that South Africa and the Czech Republic use.

    We should also add elements of offence such as support fire by a higher calibre weapon

    Put a 127mm gun on a vessel that we already have problems fitting with 76mm, is a bit like buy the pram for twins when you know you barely have the budget for a single baby
    Time for another break I think......

  9. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    Just surmising that other budget restricted combatants stick fairly big calibre units onto trucks and use them in multirole su/air modes. Possibly better than NOT getting any potential from them....
    Nope.

    Introducing, or keeping on, a weapon system has a huge tail cost - training people to use it, training people to maintain it, training people to train people to use it, training people to train people to maintain it, designing, and maintaining a certification/audit system to manage all the training and maintenance - all for a weapon with a marginal use at best.

    If you wanted to piss €50 notes up against a wall for no real world benefit then go for it....

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  11. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ropebag View Post
    Nope.

    Introducing, or keeping on, a weapon system has a huge tail cost - training people to use it, training people to maintain it, training people to train people to use it, training people to train people to maintain it, designing, and maintaining a certification/audit system to manage all the training and maintenance - all for a weapon with a marginal use at best.

    If you wanted to piss €50 notes up against a wall for no real world benefit then go for it....
    There is always an excuse but if its there, and there are Engineers in the country , and small engineering companies abound, then a way to use existing equipment could be maximised. Boarding it gets it out of your hair but weakens a potential asset. P31's potential was diminished by in-house decisions but the means and way always remained while the ship was alive. Our philosophy will have to be one of maximum use and adaption of existing equipments.

  12. #33
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    By higher calibre weapon I mean the main gun fitted 57mm/76mm. Just to ensure it is programmed to engage a selected shore target by the most accurate means possible. We also need to consider NSM. Our budget is misused , If you allocate a total annual figure to Defence then the money should be spent totally. If the Pay element is unspent then it should be spent on structures and military equipment. If they take back 100million Euro every year that is a lot of military/naval potential.

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