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Thread: navy

  1. #51
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    It is the Journal.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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  3. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    It is the Journal.
    If you need to get at the hull , pipework, and electrics then it is inevitable that cabins, bulkheads, hull lining and insulation will all have to be ripped out , and replaced in a fit out with all new materials and fittings. Virtually a new ship. All of that is consequent on hull areas having to be strengthened or cut out and replaced. When all is done I hope they carry out an Initial Stability Test to see if her start point for Stability is " as built " in the UK.

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  5. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    If you need to get at the hull , pipework, and electrics then it is inevitable that cabins, bulkheads, hull lining and insulation will all have to be ripped out , and replaced in a fit out with all new materials and fittings. Virtually a new ship. All of that is consequent on hull areas having to be strengthened or cut out and replaced. When all is done I hope they carry out an Initial Stability Test to see if her start point for Stability is " as built " in the UK.
    I was aboard Eithne during one of her refits. Quite intimidating to see the majority of internal spaces back to the bare metal. They also took the opportunity to abrasive blast her superstructure, and in doing so, (removing 30 years worth of paint) probably got her sitting a few marks higher in the water.
    Since Construction P51 has gained mounts for secondary armament quite high above the CG. For such a squat profile it was an interesting decision.
    Last edited by na grohmiti; 21st January 2020 at 20:48.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
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    German 1: That is the bad news.

  6. #54
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    Love the line in the article " gymnasium and private accommodation "
    Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

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  8. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laners View Post
    Love the line in the article " gymnasium and private accommodation "
    In our day read POs rec and sleeping in the emergency steering flat during harbour stations... not an impossible feat..
    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

  9. #56
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    I know when Deirdre was stripped of all her paint , after her equipment was removed during her mid life refit in 87 it was reckoned she had risen about five inches in the water.
    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

  10. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    I know when Deirdre was stripped of all her paint , after her equipment was removed during her mid life refit in 87 it was reckoned she had risen about five inches in the water.
    Certainly when a ship is stripped and cleaned of weed and shell , she will be a little lighter in the water, and will be faster due to reduced friction ( clean hull ).
    The overall reason is mathematics based on waterplane area (WPA) and Tonnes per centimetre (TPC) loaded on or off in Salt Water or Freshwater. If for example the TPC for a P61 is 7.5 tonnes and she decreased her draft by 12.5cm (5 inches+/-), she would have shed 93.75 tonnes. Our ships carry only a few hundred tonnes of usable weights and mostly make their own FW and have no unpredictable changes in draft, except as you point out after drydocking and paint job.

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  12. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Already happening/happened
    Holy God.! We live in the steppes and know nothing of the sea. In the last day a ship that was abandoned off Bermuda in 2018 gets washed up on Ballyandreen Strand near Ballycotton. It is only 70/75 metres long and maybe 1000 tonner. It was spotted last year in the Southern area of the North Atlantic on a Latitude with Africa.
    Why wasn't it tracked by international resources, was there positional data passed to our Government and CG. What were our MPA doing. What were the NS doing with it's Complete Maritime Awareness/Complete Maritime Domain to provide situational awareness to all that need to know. While the errant vessel " ALTA" was floating around, every vessel transiting the SW approaches was in danger. Somebody knew from day one that this vessel was derelict and drifting. Imagine a 4000 passenger vessel steaming into an unlit vessel in rough seas and buried within radar clutter, or a laden tanker from Whitegate doing the same. It is at times like this we must get real and become aware of our geographic position and the responsibilities it brings.

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  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    Holy God.! We live in the steppes and know nothing of the sea. In the last day a ship that was abandoned off Bermuda in 2018 gets washed up on Ballyandreen Strand near Ballycotton. It is only 70/75 metres long and maybe 1000 tonner. It was spotted last year in the Southern area of the North Atlantic on a Latitude with Africa.
    Why wasn't it tracked by international resources, was there positional data passed to our Government and CG. What were our MPA doing. What were the NS doing with it's Complete Maritime Awareness/Complete Maritime Domain to provide situational awareness to all that need to know. While the errant vessel " ALTA" was floating around, every vessel transiting the SW approaches was in danger. Somebody knew from day one that this vessel was derelict and drifting. Imagine a 4000 passenger vessel steaming into an unlit vessel in rough seas and buried within radar clutter, or a laden tanker from Whitegate doing the same. It is at times like this we must get real and become aware of our geographic position and the responsibilities it brings.
    Studying Marine Traffic services it seems this strange, short range, vehicle carrier, was centred mostly around the Greek islands, although in an alter ego she did enter Weymouth Harbour. She was built in 1976 and under Greek ownership was named AVANTIS 11, she then was Named AVANTIS1, and then ALTA. In 2019 HMS Protector came across her , when the RN vessel was on passage to Antartica, but noted no sign of life and continued on. Due to ALTA's construction she could only be boarded by Helo. We are now stuck with her and we should not have been caught unawares. Get a map of known derelicts and keep it updated.

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  16. #60
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    As discussed on another thread, it is in a particularly inaccessible spot, and may become the next Ranga or Samson. Cork coco are monitoring the situation for oil pollution.
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  17. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    As discussed on another thread, it is in a particularly inaccessible spot, and may become the next Ranga or Samson. Cork coco are monitoring the situation for oil pollution.
    Technically the vessel belongs to the Receiver of wrecks of this country. They should take advice of the Agency that paid out on her dereliction and then see to her rermoval. If, after 18 months she still has Oils on board, then that has to be pumped out subject to survey of professionals. The question to be answered is why do we not have a visual or monitored VTS or do we just depend on HIM to see nothing bad happens.

  18. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    Technically the vessel belongs to the Receiver of wrecks of this country. They should take advice of the Agency that paid out on her dereliction and then see to her rermoval. If, after 18 months she still has Oils on board, then that has to be pumped out subject to survey of professionals. The question to be answered is why do we not have a visual or monitored VTS or do we just depend on HIM to see nothing bad happens.
    As regards surveillance, in days of yore, the Roches point Lighthouse station had a monitoring radar and plot room to monitor the position of the CORK Buoy south of Cork harbour. Since the Lights were de-manned in 1992/1996 there is now no monitoring or radar. The pilot station is in the town with inner harbour views and some entrance views but no radar surveillance of the outer pilotage. Our control and monitoring of coastal regions is largely conceptual and reactive to specific circumstances. To be honest we need coastal radar coverage as in most of EU. The reason I bring this circumstance up is I may have seen this vessel south of Cork harbour from White Bay car park on Friday 14th February she was about 3 miles offshore. I thought she was a departure as her stern was towards me.
    Last edited by ancientmariner; 17th February 2020 at 09:39.

  19. #63
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    Here is a bit of detail from Marine Traffic:

    https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais...05/vessel:ALTA

    Although given her age and when she was abandoned it is amazing that she did not founder before this. She must have weathered several hurricanes and numerous storms during the time she was drifting.
    Last edited by EUFighter; 17th February 2020 at 11:54.

  20. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    Holy God.! We live in the steppes and know nothing of the sea. In the last day a ship that was abandoned off Bermuda in 2018 gets washed up on Ballyandreen Strand near Ballycotton. It is only 70/75 metres long and maybe 1000 tonner. It was spotted last year in the Southern area of the North Atlantic on a Latitude with Africa.
    Why wasn't it tracked by international resources, was there positional data passed to our Government and CG. What were our MPA doing. What were the NS doing with it's Complete Maritime Awareness/Complete Maritime Domain to provide situational awareness to all that need to know. While the errant vessel " ALTA" was floating around, every vessel transiting the SW approaches was in danger. Somebody knew from day one that this vessel was derelict and drifting. Imagine a 4000 passenger vessel steaming into an unlit vessel in rough seas and buried within radar clutter, or a laden tanker from Whitegate doing the same. It is at times like this we must get real and become aware of our geographic position and the responsibilities it brings.
    First we should be annoyed with the RN, they spotted her a long time ago and knew she had been abandoned. But what is most annoying is that any would-be smuggler will see that they would most likely not get caught unless we have prior intel.

  21. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    First we should be annoyed with the RN, they spotted her a long time ago and knew she had been abandoned. But what is most annoying is that any would-be smuggler will see that they would most likely not get caught unless we have prior intel.
    She was built in Norway by Tronderverftet of Hommelvik and registered in Bergen as TANAGER. She is a general cargo ship but designed to handle Palletised cargo. She has two hull doors with drive on/off facilities. She was then renamed POMOR MURMAN, later POLAR TRADER, later AVANTIS11, later AVANTIS1,later MAX MAMUTT, later ALTA, her current name. She is about 1600 tonnes and carried 128 tonnes of fuel. She could take 53 X 20ft TEU's and has a single upper hatch 19.1m X 8.8m. She is built with three decks. She is built to Norwegian Bureau standards.

  22. #66
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    Quick lick of grey paint and we can sell her off to the Libyan Private Navy.

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  24. #67
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    rn could have put a few 20 mmm rounds into her at water line and it would now be a good home to marine life....

  25. #68
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    Did they have something as large as that? Ice patrol ships are not always armed.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
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  27. #69
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    I don't think she had anything larger than 7.62. The USCG would have more likely had something with a bigger bang assuming it was a cutter than met her way out in the Atlantic. Surprised they didn't sink her as a hazard to navigation but I'm not expert on the legal aspects of all this admittidly.
    Last edited by Auldsod; 17th February 2020 at 20:19.

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  29. #70
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    On further reading, she was met by the below cutter.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USCGC_...nce_(WMEC-619)

    Seems they tried to get in contact the ship's owner to arrange a tug but nothing came of it. A hurricane was incoming so I'm guessing they bugged out.
    Last edited by Auldsod; 17th February 2020 at 20:24.

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  31. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    Did they have something as large as that? Ice patrol ships are not always armed.
    2 X 7.62mm miniguns + 4 x GPMGs
    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

  32. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    2 X 7.62mm miniguns + 4 x GPMGs
    Must be some bad ass polar bears out there .
    Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

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  34. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laners View Post
    Must be some bad ass polar bears out there .
    Sod the Bears, it's the Penguins I'd be more worried about
    https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20171126021333

    On a serious note though, I believe the Antarctic Treaties limit Armed Forces to small arms only in Antarctica.
    Well, government doesn't stop just because the country's been destroyed!
    I mean, annihilation's bad enough without anarchy to make things even worse!

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  36. #74
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    I remember seeing on that documentary series about the arctic patrol vessel that subsequently sank, that the treaty had them removing all weapons from their mounts when operating south of a particular line on the globe.al other nations did the same, and the major warships in the region did not go south of this line at all.
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  38. #75
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    [QUOTE=ancientmariner;473103]As regards surveillance, Our control and monitoring of coastal regions is largely conceptual and reactive to specific circumstances. To be honest we need coastal radar coverage as in most of EU.

    Just to outline how we became an accidental Navy. When the State first emerged there was a mixed bag of almost a couple of dozen mixed vessels taken over with ,Muirchu , Dainty, Fort Rannoch, and Shark being mentioned in dispatches. There were others who were keen to see a real Navy with aspirations towards a Light Cruiser, 4 destroyers, Coastal torpedo boats, Fleet Oilers, Tugs, and SUBMARINES. Suffice it to say we were best dressed with the rag tag range of vessels left behind by the RN.
    We were looking for many MTB's and eventually acquired 6 to give us the skills of a coastal force with Torpedos and HMG's and the 12 Pdr on Muirchu. We continued forward to 1949 when we transferred our skills to manning the three Corvettes and becoming an ASW force with convoy defence capability. The torpedo trade was quickly expunged and Sonar, DC's, Hedgehog, AA, and 4" inch gun took over. In 1971/73 the corvettes were gone to be replaced by 3 CMS's and a change to an MCM Navy with emerging OPV's added on but the ASW trade was now expunged also. Eventually the MCM trade was then deleted as we added to the OPV Fleet and additionally ventured into Flight decks and Helicopters. However the aviation scene fell out of favour and traces of the ability were quickly compromised by other priorites. Then from the 1990's building program we added on 6 new OPV's to the retained HPV and 2 CPV's to give us 9 ships all with one gun and similar capabilities except for range. With every vessel type change we became a different Navy but every change brought the penalty of the loss of key operational capability. All those naval functions gained and lost need to be regained and maintained as in all Navies.
    Last edited by ancientmariner; 19th May 2020 at 14:53.

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