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  • DF accomodation issues

    Originally posted by trellheim View Post
    Oh get off your high horse.

    A:RACO wasn't to the back in coming forward when complaining about PDF officers living in portakabins in the Brugha recently

    B: Sam Bs were offered IIRC by the COS as a sop
    You can't equate an issue about living conditions for members with an issue about a ceremonial part of uniform. I saw that thread mentioning portakabins but decided not to contribute as the whole tone was anti officer and anti officers going to college. All ranks should be housed in solid block accommodation. As you progress through the ranks your accommodation should improve. Ptes might share a room, S/NCOs get their own room and so should officers. It's not even in the same ball park as RDF officers crying that they couldn't wear the Sam Browne.

    If it was PDFORRA seeking improvements in living in accommodation would you be throwing that grenade into the debate? Officer accommodation is far from the top of RACO's priorities, all you have to do is look at it.

    The Sam Browne issue was top of RDFRA's agenda and took up huge time at the conference. You can justify an accommodation issue on it merits, the Sam Browne issue was a trivial matter. It would be like RACO campaigning to have the red stripe taken off the Dress Uniform (which is poxy and most officers hate it). Anyone who would raise that would be laughed off the stage. There are far bigger fish to fry.

    The fact that the Sam Browne issue was pursued so vigorously by RDFRA trivialised the organisation in the eyes of many and reinforced the perception that any issue raised by them was not to be taken seriously.

  • #2
    I saw that thread mentioning portakabins but decided not to contribute as the whole tone was anti officer and anti officers going to college.
    I posted a lot of comments on that particular issue- I dont think it was anti Officer I did however point out the fact that - these were young officers studying catering and tourism living in the DFTC and being bussed every day to Dublin- this bussing arrangement didnt work out for them,

    they complained to RACO - RACO complained on their behalf looking for accomodation in DUblin- none was to be had except City west - the DF in its wisdom put them into Portacabins in CBB

    these were no ordinary Portacabins they were little palaces- any enlisted man living in in CBB would have swapped but still the chosen ones complained.

    whats anti officer about that-

    a suggestion doing the rounds of CBB at the time was - evict all the married officers living in married quarters and let the students live there at normal mess rates

    picture a lead baloon in the air
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by hedgehog View Post
      any enlisted man living in in CBB would have swapped but still the chosen ones complained.

      whats anti officer about that-
      Surely any enlisted man in any army would, if given the choice, take an officers accommodation over enlisted accommodation? Should the quality of accommodation not be some way related to rank?

      That's a bit of a facile argument. It's like one of my Platoon in UNIFIL complaining about how much the Italian helicopter pilots were being paid in contrast to him. He honestly didn't see the irony in that argument.

      Compare like with like.

      Enlisted accommodation in the Brugha versus Clonmel, Kilkenny, Athlone, pretty much anywhere Hedgehog - There's only one winner there.

      Officer accommodation in a portakabin on the square versus officer accommodation in the mess - There's only one winner there.

      Comment


      • #4
        Off topic perhaps, but why is it that officers require to be treated as a seperate class from non comissioned?
        I see the need for seperate accomodation, naturally, but why should one officer occupy the same amount of space as 6 enlisted personell?


        Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

        Comment


        • #5
          Your mising the point entirely

          when you and RACO say portacabins your hemming it up- they were in fact purpose built transitory accomodation buildings- each room had an ensuite- and because for some reason it was considered sub standard ( well done RACO) they got it free gratis.

          you have to remember these were lads based in the DFTC not in a Dublin Unit- they demanded to be accomodated in DUblin

          Knowing full well everywhere in Dublin was at max occupancy- so they were either stirring it or looking for a city west type soloution.

          Compare like with like.

          Enlisted accommodation in the Brugha versus Clonmel, Kilkenny, Athlone, pretty much anywhere Hedgehog - There's only one winner there.

          Officer accommodation in a portakabin on the square versus officer accommodation in the mess - There's only one winner there.
          Lets do the real comparison

          Officers accom in a Portakabin -V- Officers accom in an Officers Mess in the DFTC bussed up and down every day
          to my mind it would be - well do I want the solid block accom and the hassle of getting the transit twice a day and missing out on College Social life

          or do I want the free accom in CBB and still have all the benifits of a mess and be able to have a college social life and be able to crib as well.


          before you start assuming stuff you have to remember I am in CBB. I have been on duties with the inhabitants of Camp X Ray -


          Quote:
          Originally Posted by hedgehog
          any enlisted man living in in CBB would have swapped but still the chosen ones complained.

          whats anti officer about that-

          Surely any enlisted man in any army would, if given the choice, take an officers accommodation over enlisted accommodation?
          Christ NO- have you seent he state of the Officers mess in CBB- its like something from a soviet era barracks- the inhabitants do themselves no favours by not at least keeping there rooms and the surroundings clean

          Or does the holding of the COmmission preclude them from lifting the empty bacardi breezer bottle from outside there door.

          The standard of enlisted accom in CBB is far higher than living in Officer accom- primarily because we have good CQ's who inssit on a level of cleanliness


          Should the quality of accommodation not be some way related to rank
          you do know the days of the Raj are well gone-

          In fact should it not be the case that our Officers are knocking on doors demanding improvements in accom for THEIR men

          surely with that magiic commission and as a pay back for the salute comes the responsibility to ensure that YOUR Troops have accom second to none

          and not second to none but not as good as mine because I am an Officer
          Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
          Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
          The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
          The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
          The best lack all conviction, while the worst
          Are full of passionate intensity.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
            Off topic perhaps, but why is it that officers require to be treated as a seperate class from non comissioned?
            I see the need for seperate accomodation, naturally, but why should one officer occupy the same amount of space as 6 enlisted personell?
            That might be case on a ship but have you ever really seen any officer accommodation like USAC or CBB or Collins Bks in Cork. Two enlisted personnel might fit in them in bunk beds maybe but six? Maybe if they were members of the National Pygmy Army!

            Take the officer reference out and I'll believe it's not anti officer. What about Senior NCOs getting a room to themselves. Proper order IMO.

            Comment


            • #7
              these are open discussions Jessup

              I dont think any one is anti officer- anti senior nco- anti private

              anything anti things (except gingers)

              scale back on the paranoia-

              there are serving and ex officers on here all the time
              Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
              Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
              The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
              The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
              The best lack all conviction, while the worst
              Are full of passionate intensity.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Jessup View Post
                That might be case on a ship but have you ever really seen any officer accommodation like USAC or CBB or Collins Bks in Cork. Two enlisted personnel might fit in them in bunk beds maybe but six? Maybe if they were members of the National Pygmy Army!

                Take the officer reference out and I'll believe it's not anti officer. What about Senior NCOs getting a room to themselves. Proper order IMO.
                I have cleaned up cadets accomodation in DFTC.


                Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                  I have cleaned up cadets accomodation in DFTC.
                  Standards must be slipping! What were you doing cleaning up Cadet accommodation. A large amount of my time as a Cadet was spent cleaning

                  Eight to a 'passage' (terrible double entendre I know) which were small rooms similar to anyone on a course in the DFTC in junior year. Two to a room in the mess in senior year.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                    I have cleaned up cadets accomodation in DFTC.
                    Is this going somewhere.... ?
                    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Accomodation for all ranks varies massively between barracks.

                      Rooms in the cadet school are quite small in the pasaiste. Cadets share a larger room as a senior but these vary in size, some are big, some are cramped.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Should the quality of accommodation not be some way related to rank?
                        Not unless you are paying for it.

                        A large amount of my time as a Cadet was spent cleaning
                        No different to an enlisted recruit, so why should it change after being commisioned.

                        i was witness to the absolute waste of man power tied up in officer/steward situation.I'm not belittling anybody in any respect as in the NS some of these guys were absolutely brilliant in the job they performed and under the culture of the time it was a requirement.

                        Some abused the privelege of having stewards, some stewards abused the position of having acccess to officers, works both ways.

                        In the 21st century every person should at leats have earned the right to have decent living conditions in the DF regardless of rank but alos has an obligation to look after these quarters.

                        Portakabins are not suitable for long term living quarters.
                        Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by kermit
                          Cadets aren't Officers. I doubt you were let in the mess, so why were you cleaning rooms in the Passages?
                          It was being used as Accom for FCA Officers back when you were in primary school. The Occasion was an All Army.
                          I merely pointed out that I was cleaning the room, in case someone draw inference that I was somewhere I shouldn't be.

                          Actually, there is a Good chance Jessup was a cadet at the time....


                          But the point that was being derailed by me was, why is it Officers should EXPECT a higher standard of accomodation than NCOs? Why don't officers sleep in the same type of Billet as NCOs and other Enlisted, if not the same Billet? The Glen is the only place I have seen this happen, and some (In Particular RDF) clearly turn up their nose at the mere notion they may have to share space.

                          If in the Cathal Brugha situation, the people going to college were NCOs, would the DF have provided portacabin accomodation for them, instead of bussing them to and from the DFTC daily?

                          I noticed no accom for block release attending FAS...


                          Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Seriously :confused: You feel that higher ups, be that NCOs or officers shouldn't have better accommodation than their subordinates.

                            Is this a socialist forum. Are you really Joe Higgins?

                            The last appointment that I had where I inspected o/ranks living accommodation was in Sarsfield in Limerick a good few years ago. Most Ptes were sharing although some of the longer serving 'barrack rats' (I always hated that expression) had their own room. All the NCOs had their own room. Proper order as far as I'm concerned.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                              But the point that was being derailed by me was, why is it Officers should EXPECT a higher standard of accomodation than NCOs? Why don't officers sleep in the same type of Billet as NCOs and other Enlisted, if not the same Billet?
                              Simple answer part one, because they're officers. I don't know any Army that is different even the communist ones.

                              Secondly the separation is vital to reinforce the chain of command. Just like the messes. Ever notice why officers don't over stay their welcome if they're invited to the Ptes or NCOs mess. We leave so that you can get back to giving out about us and letting your hair down without the glare of an officer looking on.

                              Comment

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