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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hello Alaska View Post
    They should've been brought to have a look at the 2 Bn living in accomodation to bring them back down to Earth. The place is an absolute shithole, the lads do their best to keep it respectable but **** me it's a kip. 3 or 4 lads to a room, pretty much the same rooms as they'd have used in Recruit training, communal bathrooms and a rec room that's sometimes open. All this accomodation for lads that are actually working during the week, rather than stumbling into the barracks at all hours enjoying the college life.
    Your lucky down in the Brugha.
    When I passed out last year I was put into a 8 man room, one of the rooms we used in 2-3*. There was only one bathroom on our floor.
    You have a rec room?
    Last edited by Border Bunny; 21st August 2009 at 23:50.

  2. #27
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    IMHO:

    Ideally privates should be with their section, or half section. Corporals should either be with the section (not ideally!!) or sharing a room with the other corporals in the section. Sergeants either sharing room with others in coy or individual room. SNCOs same as sergeants. YOs should be individual or 2/3 to a room.

    The reasoning behind this isn't so that the privates can see the other mess, it is so that the the NCOs/officers can:
    - moan about the privates and vice versa in peace
    - prepare the lessons etc in peace

    Also very importantly the NCO have less time to rest than privates, their day doesn't finish at the time the programme ends!! The same should be true for the officers.

    ----------------------
    I've done an overnight in CBB, think it was transit accomodiation, just vacated by recruits I think. It was comfort, clean, secure and en-suite (ie you didn't need to leave the billet). But and this is a big butt.... it was/is extremely cramped (there were around 12+ bunk beds in a very small space. For a couple of weeks it would be ok but 16+ weeks!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by Jessup View Post
    The Sam Browne issue was top of RDFRA's agenda and took up huge time at the conference. You can justify an accommodation issue on it merits, the Sam Browne issue was a trivial matter.

    The fact that the Sam Browne issue was pursued so vigorously by RDFRA trivialised the organisation in the eyes of many and reinforced the perception that any issue raised by them was not to be taken seriously.
    The way it works it is a unit comes up with a motion (in this case Sam Browne's), that motion was one of probably 20-30 motions at the conference. It was discussed for maybe 5-10 mins tops (if I remember rightly it was a bit contraversial so took a bit longer). The conference voted for it and it became RDFRA policy.

    It was mentioned in passing in one of the speeches (3 seconds) and as I said the COS stood up.

    It was not and never had been top of the agenda AFAIK.

  3. #28
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    Check that carpet thing out with the Mess Sgt. That carpet may have been paid for by mess funds; i.e. subs from the officers.
    Why do you think I am quoting that particualr item- also have a look at the front "garden" of teh Officers Mess CBB.- mess subs did NOT pay for them-

    Have a look also at Sarsfield house or Nashville as its now known.


    PDFORRA do not worry senior Officers- if you think so then mate you havent a clue.

    If they didn't then why are PDFORRA there at all?
    A mate of mine told me about being in Bosnia and chatting with Brits about what we do and what they do etc- the subject of PDFORRA came up and my mate who was a Bk Rep gave the full low down- he asked the Brits did they have something similar

    and they said no- because most of the stuff that PDFORRA do for us- is done for them by their Officers.

    We pay a % of our wages so our Officers have less to do for us-

    in reality we are idiots.

    Mate none of this is an anti Jessup or Anti Officer rant- sometimes unpleasent stuff comes up,
    I am sure you have loads and loads of my NCO's/Pte's drive me mad type stuff
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
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    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  4. #29
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    I am all for segrogation of ranks. I just don't see why certain ranks should expect a higher class of accomodation because of their rank.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  5. #30
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    The "prefabs" we are talking about are not "prefabs" in the traditional sense they are more like a container.

    Also are the messes not self funding? If they are getting done up it comes from the mess accounts?

  6. #31
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    The "prefabs" we are talking about are not "prefabs" in the traditional sense they are more like a container.

    Also are the messes not self funding? If they are getting done up it comes from the mess accounts?
    Your right on point 1

    and you should be right on point 2- but alas thats not the case
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  7. #32
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    [QUOTE=Jessup;265327]...we do get a Presidential Commission and the responsibility that goes with that commission. QUOTE]

    and one of those responsibilities is the welfare of the troops, not to whinge and whine about individual accomodation in Dublin when troops are not getting similar.

    Now get off your horse (and stay off it).

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by hedgehog View Post
    The young Officers should be sent back to the DFTC and be up at 7 every morning for the transit- thats the simplest soloution,

    but wait they wanted to live in Dublin- didnt they.
    Any DF pers if detailed for a course should be provided with accommodation in the nearest military post. If the transport solution is the way forward then apply it to all ranks.

    A soldier in the DFTC doing the chefs course in DIT Cathal Brugha Street shouldn't be accommodated in McKee or CBB. He should be driven up and down every day or give him PTR at massive cost to the state versus accommodation.

    Soldiers in Limerick on the CIS technicians course in Cork IT shouldn't be accommodated in Collins Bks but commute daily at the States expense.

    Soldiers in Monaghan, McKee or CBB attending the CIS technicians course in Dundalk IT should't be accommodated in Dundalk. To fully apply your logic the transit could start in CBB at 0600 call into McKee at 0630, then Monaghan at 0730 and on to Dundalk.

    Of course this doesn't happen because its idiotic. Take the officer out of the equation and you'd see that. If the o/ranks in the above examples found that their accommodation in McKee, CBB, Collins or Dundalk was inferior to others of equal rank they would have a valid case just as the officers in CBB did.

    Quote Originally Posted by hedgehog View Post

    I think it all comes down to this sentenance- they earned it,

    How did they earn it?
    They've earned it by successfully applying for a Cadetship through a highly competitive process, by completing a rigorous scheme of training (of which much of the early stages is assessed by NCOs) eventually leading to a Presidential Commission.

    It's funny how there is consensus if the above applies to an ex Pte but not anyone else particualrly if its an officers son or daughter as I've seen on another farcical, small minded, anti officer thread. An ex Pte who goes through the Cadet School 'earns it' but anyone else must be an officers son or daughter.

  9. #34
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Do you want Salt and Vinegar?


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by hedgehog View Post
    Why do you think I am quoting that particualr item- also have a look at the front "garden" of teh Officers Mess CBB.- mess subs did NOT pay for them-

    Have a look also at Sarsfield house or Nashville as its now known.
    There was no garden there in my time just a place to kick ball. It's not an appropriate use of funds if there is. As I said before I totally disagree with expenditure on public rooms, or gardens or bars in any Officers, NCOs or Ptes mess especially when the living in accommodation requires improvement.

    What's that mess in the Curragh that overlooks the ranges? Have you seen the rooms upstairs for 'visiting senior NCOs'. Rarely used, a complete vanity while Connolly Lines is far from the standard it should be.

    As for Generals and Nashville. There's not an Army in the universe where Generals don't have perks. He was the 2i/c of the DF for crying out loud. I think he's earned more than a scratcher in the lines with three other bods.

    Quote Originally Posted by hedgehog View Post
    PDFORRA do not worry senior Officers- if you think so then mate you havent a clue.

    the subject of PDFORRA came up and my mate who was a Bk Rep gave the full low down- he asked the Brits did they have something similar and they said no- because most of the stuff that PDFORRA do for us- is done for them by their Officers.
    PDFORRA are part of the agenda. There's a section in DFHQ to deal with them for Gods sake. It's called C&A!

    PDFORRA can present the prospect of being a royal pain in the ass to make an option or course of action unattractive. It just won't be worth the hassle. Most officers at senior level are living out so getting a pain in your head from PDFORRA about the smallest improvement to officer accommodation is considered a self inflicted injury. Why bother? At the same time they can't let PDFORRA 'win' so they won't improve o/ranks accommodation either.

    Like some arguments you might have with the wife. You might want to fight the issue and know you are right but ask yourself is it worth it and even if you win you'll wonder how it will come back to haunt you.

    As for the Brits. Very bad example. I did a course in the UK in 1999. Single rooms with double beds ensuite. A Jury Inn type set up. Four of us shared a batman! A batman in 1999! Now that's just plain wrong. It was extravagant even by todays standard. More than what is needed and not what I would be proposing. But it certainly wasn't a portakabin on the square.

    The officers accommodation was absolutely first rate while some, but certainly not all of the o/ranks accommodation was as good as the best we had here, (like Cavan in 1999) It was no where near the officers and S/NCOs. I saw the same in Slim Lines in KFOR. They make no apology about it and the o/ranks accepted it - Privilege of Rank.
    Last edited by Jessup; 22nd August 2009 at 00:23.

  11. #36
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    [QUOTE=Steyr Fan;265362]
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessup View Post
    ...we do get a Presidential Commission and the responsibility that goes with that commission. QUOTE]

    and one of those responsibilities is the welfare of the troops, not to whinge and whine about individual accomodation in Dublin when troops are not getting similar.

    Now get off your horse (and stay off it).
    Sure, if the whole socialism thing works out we'll have soldiers in 'similar' accommodation to officers. We'll set up a politburo too and make all decisions through an all ranks committee.

    A rising tide will raise all boats. If the officers don't have hot water in their accommodation and the o/ranks are whingeing and whining about them not having it either then there's not going to be much sympathy. Nobody wins there.

    I remember the troops whose welfare I was charged with in Blaney complaining about their lot. They were in solid block billets while I was sleeping on a cot in the kitchen in the 'officers hut' as it was affectionately known for the rotation. I might have been an officer but I was human so stayed right up on that horse!

    They did replace the officers hut some years later and guess what - uproar. This was even though the o/ranks accommodation had been superior for years!

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish View Post
    Do you want Salt and Vinegar?
    Only if its not from a Pte who is a barman in the 'platatial' officers mess. I'll go the NCOs or Ptes Mess and get them there. Would that be ok comrade?

  13. #38
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessup View Post


    I remember the troops whose welfare I was charged with in Blaney complaining about their lot. They were in solid block billets while I was sleeping on a cot in the kitchen in the 'officers hut' as it was affectionately known for the rotation. I might have been an officer but I was human so stayed right up on that horse!

    They did replace the officers hut some years later and guess what - uproar. This was even though the o/ranks accommodation had been superior for years!
    I never remember there being Block Billets in Blaney. I Only remember the timber huts.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish View Post
    I never remember there being Block Billets in Blaney. I Only remember the timber huts.
    When was that? When Brian Boru was Chief of Staff?

  15. #40
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    I think he's earned more than a scratcher in the lines with three other bods.
    I reckon he should bunk in with officers of equal rank.

    I've no problem with keeping the officers and enlisted in their own accomadation but having the enlisted live in substandard accomadation while the officers have better accomadation is not on.

    The fact that enlsited can buy a house on the same housing estate in civvy street why should they not share equal accomadation when in bks?albeit in differnt quarters.

    I'm all for the seperation of ranks to encourage the divide btween enlisted and ranks as clearly there are management and there are grunts. The DF especially the RDF is afar worse place for the over familiartity that has come into places. Some have got the balance right, but its not a democracy, there is a ruling class there will be crossovers and reduction in restrictions to make the thing work. Both sidesof the fence must have mutual respect , officers have to be seen to improve the conditions of their menand in return expect the loyaltity and respect that goes with it. Primary rule of the army respect the rank, then the man.

    The anti officer bitching in general is bad practise. Sure there are some dismal officers out ther as there are some fine ones as is the case for enlisted, this is accepted but by tarring all with the one brush we are painting a very poor picture of the DF as a whole.

    It was far more elitist in the past no denying that, the army still takes on certain individuals through the class system, some of these shine other don't. Those who come from a middle class back round have moved into uncharted territory but once in should be on a level playing field and lineage shouldn't affect how their carrers pan out, often some are taken offence to and bracketed all through their carreers, amany fine officers have been lost through this.

    I have to say to a certain extent it is starting to open up a bit but the enlisted have to realise that if they had taken the option of the cadet school indeed they may have made it.

    Yes there is eletism amongst the officer corps but only because of the selection process and because they got through a very rigerous selection process, I don't hold that against them but it shouldn't give them the right to abidicate from their responsibility unto their men.

    The eliteism should not extend to basic living facilities and officers have a responsibility to make sure their men are as well barracked as they are them selves, again respect is earned by action, disdain earned by in action.

    I reckon its getting there as guys come out of scholl join the army to find their platoon officer was the guy who was two classes ahead of them in school but lived in the same housing estate. they can equate with this guy and he is on a winner already if the guys can equate with him.

    Idealism I know but what I've seen of guys coming through the reserve and getting cadetships and meeting them when commissioned afterwards I found them all to be very fine professional young men who were happy to reflect on their time in the RDF and would help the RDF guys on exercise to get the best of the traing available .

    Having met with some of my own former officers from the NS 20 years on its nice to know the rank barriers are gone and have been able to talk openy with them with no officer /enlisted bullshit involved.

    The have been quite helpful in some areas I've had interest in and often like to know how guys moved on after the service and are quite genuine in their concerns. Anti Officer me..no...ant idiot regardless of rank yes!
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  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    I reckon he should bunk in with officers of equal rank.

    I've no problem with keeping the officers and enlisted in their own accomadation but having the enlisted live in substandard accomadation while the officers have better accomadation is not on.
    Nobody should be in sub standard accommodation. There should be a minimum acceptable standard but I suppose where I differ with most on this thread is that I believe that the standard should rise with rank. Take officers out of it for a second because I feel most posters can't see beyond that red mist.

    Lets say there's a standard that Ptes share a room of certain sq ft and amenities etc between four.

    Another standard is that Sgts should have a single room of smaller sq ft but with maybe slightly better amenities (a sink in the room perhaps). You could even link it to the equivalent to what a Lt would have.

    If a Sgt is sharing with one other Sgt then its sub standard for his rank.

    If a Pte is sharing with three others his accommodation is as per standard.

    The Pte would love to share with just one other and can't understand how the Sgts accommodation could be classified as sub standard. Its not sub standard for a Pte but it is for a Sgt.
    Last edited by Jessup; 22nd August 2009 at 01:18.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    I reckon he should bunk in with officers of equal rank.
    That's really lightened the thread. You do know that was referring to a Maj Gen? He should bunk in with the only other Maj Gen Now that would start a fantastic rumour. The two D COS's living together. I'd say the IMO server would crash with the posts on that thread

    Who was the other D COS with The Nasher before he went to Chad, hopefully not a snorer

  18. #43
    C/S Tango_Charlie's Avatar
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    Jessup you make some valid points but by your reasoning, a red arse 2nd lieutenant fresh outta the cadet school would be entitled to better accomodation than a Sgt. Major? No way.

    Of course there should be certain priveleges with rank but keep it realistic.

  19. #44
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    Im slightly off topic here but id like to back to something Jessop said (sorry guys but i dont know how to quote on this site yet!!)
    Basically it said "no apoloogies etc chain of command...they have earned it"
    Maybe so Jessop, but do you apply this argument to a 2 LT straigth out of the cadet school. Personally I always viewed the cadet school as a type of apprenticeship....teaches you the theory of what you will be doing, but you only learn your job when you go to your unit (I would hold recruit training in the same light)
    In my experience a pip on either shoulder earns you nothing but disdain. Ptes view 2 LT's as over eager gobshites who havent a clue, SNCO's tolerate them as having to learn. Point I'm making is that "earning" something takes time, it isnt an automatic right just because youv'e completed a course (lets face it thats all cadet school is, a course, take a civvie, make him an officer).
    And please guys before you hit me with the "did you ever do it" line...no I didnt, but I did hang up my camo in Jan of this year as a SNCO with 22 under my belt....so in my opinion (humble as it may be) that must count for something

  20. #45
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessup View Post
    What's that mess in the Curragh that overlooks the ranges?
    Hospital mess?


    PDFORRA are part of the agenda. There's a section in DFHQ to deal with them for Gods sake. It's called C&A!
    Plus the unit commanders & GOCs they talk to on local issues.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jessup View Post
    Nobody should be in sub standard accommodation. There should be a minimum acceptable standard but I suppose where I differ with most on this thread is that I believe that the standard should rise with rank. Take officers out of it for a second because I feel most posters can't see beyond that red mist.

    Lets say there's a standard that Ptes share a room of certain sq ft and amenities etc between four.

    Another standard is that Sgts should have a single room of smaller sq ft but with maybe slightly better amenities (a sink in the room perhaps). You could even link it to the equivalent to what a Lt would have.

    If a Sgt is sharing with one other Sgt then its sub standard for his rank.

    If a Pte is sharing with three others his accommodation is as per standard.
    Thats a excellent idea! Having said that many billets are in old buildings that probably couldn't be cheaply converted to this standard.

    There is a set square footage for living areas it could be HSA or something else, DF are probably exempt.

    When I joined the FCA they were charging us for accomodiation but we never got charged because it was alway "sub-standard" accomodiation.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Border Bunny View Post
    Your lucky down in the Brugha.
    When I passed out last year I was put into a 8 man room, one of the rooms we used in 2-3*. There was only one bathroom on our floor.
    You have a rec room?
    Luxury!!

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    Last edited by Sluggie; 22nd August 2009 at 10:03.

  22. #47
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    What's that mess in the Curragh that overlooks the ranges? Have you seen the rooms upstairs for 'visiting senior NCOs'. Rarely used, a complete vanity while Connolly Lines is far from the standard it should be.
    Bullshit.Get your facts straight.That mess was the old hospital mess.It is now the Military college NCO's mess.The rooms upstairs are used by NCO's sent to instruct on courses in the Military college and are very much in demand all year round.So much so that what were originally one and two man rooms now have three beds in each!There are only two senior NCO's (BSM's) living in and only because they are from down the country whilst their jobs are in the DFTC.So rarely used i think not, and a vanity?What a crock

    Also i worked in an officers mess as mess NCO for a time.I have seen the condition that most junior officers keep there rooms in and it is a disgrace.Total hypocrisy then to inspect Pte's quarters and bottle them for not keeping them clean.Do as i say not do as i do.
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  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tango_Charlie View Post
    Jessup you make some valid points but by your reasoning, a red arse 2nd lieutenant fresh outta the cadet school would be entitled to better accomodation than a Sgt. Major? No way.

    Of course there should be certain priveleges with rank but keep it realistic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tango_Charlie View Post
    Jessup you make some valid points but by your reasoning, a red arse 2nd lieutenant fresh outta the cadet school would be entitled to better accomodation than a Sgt. Major? No way.

    Of course there should be certain priveleges with rank but keep it realistic.
    No, no, no. You didn't read my post at all. In the same way that there is parity between ranks on pay there should be a parallel on accommodation. As you increase in rank, so does your pay and if living in so should your accommodation. A lot of people on this thread don't even agree on that. They want everyone regardless of rank in the same accommodation.

    Using pay as a guide I suggested that a Sgt is linked to a Lt. Well logically take it on from there. CS and CQMS linked to a Capt. BSM and BQ to Comdt. That's the way I saw it in the UK. Its operating like that on the ground here as far as I could see. I shared a room on a number of occasions as a Lt but never as a Captain. I knew some living in Sgts who shared and some who had their own room. Of the CS's and CQs I knew that lived in none shared and no surprise that the CQs quarters were much better than mine as a Captain

    Some might ask how many CS, CQMS, BSM and BQ live in but I noticed before I left that those with ambition were quite prepared to move Bks to seek out promotion. So if a Sgt in the 4 Bn get promoted CS in the 12 Bn then he should have accommodation on a par with a Captain in that Bks. In a Coy there is only one Captain and one CS and leaving the strict rank interpretation issues aside they are equal pegging in the Coy for practical purposes (well, that's what most Captains like to believe, a lot of CS's would have a different idea )

    As for Ptes and Cpls. I make no apology for suggesting that their accommodation should not be at the same level as a Sgt. If we start the parity system there and link Sgt to Lt and that means that every Sgt or Lt (which means every officer ) is in better digs than a Pte or Cpl then so be it. I mean better as in not sharing but smaller sq ft, a sink, built in units etc.

    If those with a chip rather than a pip on the shoulder can accept that a CS that is living in should have better digs than a Pte then I would suggest that a Captain should also have better digs. Alas, once 'officer accommodation' is mentioned it's red rag to a bull and logic goes out the window.
    Last edited by Jessup; 22nd August 2009 at 11:32.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurryupandwait View Post
    Im slightly off topic here but id like to back to something Jessop said (sorry guys but i dont know how to quote on this site yet!!)
    Basically it said "no apoloogies etc chain of command...they have earned it"
    Maybe so Jessop, but do you apply this argument to a 2 LT straigth out of the cadet school. Personally I always viewed the cadet school as a type of apprenticeship....teaches you the theory of what you will be doing, but you only learn your job when you go to your unit (I would hold recruit training in the same light)
    In my experience a pip on either shoulder earns you nothing but disdain. Ptes view 2 LT's as over eager gobshites who havent a clue, SNCO's tolerate them as having to learn. Point I'm making is that "earning" something takes time, it isnt an automatic right just because youv'e completed a course (lets face it thats all cadet school is, a course, take a civvie, make him an officer).
    And please guys before you hit me with the "did you ever do it" line...no I didnt, but I did hang up my camo in Jan of this year as a SNCO with 22 under my belt....so in my opinion (humble as it may be) that must count for something
    Maybe this should be transferred to the Army Officer thread?

    I think myself and Hedgehog discussed this already. The organisation has to believe in the system. There are many things that you can't cover in the Cadet School from a technical skills and experience POV. It goes back to the 'character' cliche. In particular the integrity angle and having to make unpopular decisions as a a matter of course. I'm guessing that when you did your Pots Cse that giving rather than following unpopular orders was one of the biggest transitions? Maybe you found your Std Cse as an easier transition? Newly commissioned officers have to learn that concept without dilution in a black and white environment and then get released into the wild. If you left that part of their character development to on the job then it would be littered with problems.

    You are manipulated in the Cdt Sch all the time there, given opportunities to make things easy by lying and constantly put in situations that make you ferociously unpopular with your classmates. They are even more devious in doing that on the Potential Officers Cse. When in appointment if they ever catch doing the 'its not me, blame them' thing you're finished. A guy in my class did that as Sch Orderly and it was the final nail in his coffin that saw him back classed.

    Dealing with disinterested Ptes or NCOs who think they know it all is not confined to your time as a 2/Lt. Dealing with the apathy, disdain, and sense of superiortiy is part of the development processes. It builds character. One of my first Pln Sgts was an awful walloper, constantly undermining me and always with the smart comments but nothing that you could charge him with. It was great for my development and when I was in the depot a few years later with a Sgt that everyone was scared of I was so used to dealing with the other guy it was easy. In fact, in one way every 2/Lt should be teamed up with a horrible Pln Sgt for a period or one following a script from the Coy Comdr. What doesn't kill you will make you stronger kind of idea. :wink:

    The same on my first trip o/seas. All my NCOS had multiple trips who thought they knew it all and me on my first trip. They wanted to be able to drink Almazas with the lads, and not ride them to improve the DPs which is hard, physical, unpopular work. The officer is pre-conditioned from a 2/Lt that his troops are not his friends and they might very well hate him. So I made no apology about working on the DPs. Now the fairy tale story is that one of the new DPs saved the lives of one of the Pln. It rarely works out like that because if it did you would have enough 'case studies' that the decision wouldn't be unpopular at all. Sure, we got a numerous firing closes but no DP was hit directly so they probably still bitch about it today but I had the 'character' to know what I did was right.
    Last edited by Jessup; 22nd August 2009 at 11:35.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    Bullshit.Get your facts straight.That mess was the old hospital mess.It is now the Military college NCO's mess.The rooms upstairs are used by NCO's sent to instruct on courses in the Military college and are very much in demand all year round.So much so that what were originally one and two man rooms now have three beds in each!There are only two senior NCO's (BSM's) living in and only because they are from down the country whilst their jobs are in the DFTC.So rarely used i think not, and a vanity?What a crock

    Also i worked in an officers mess as mess NCO for a time.I have seen the condition that most junior officers keep there rooms in and it is a disgrace.Total hypocrisy then to inspect Pte's quarters and bottle them for not keeping them clean.Do as i say not do as i do.
    Well if you want to talk about facts I spoke to a colleague who was on the half lobotomy last night to ask him the name of that mess because it was bugging me to put a name on it. He said that there is some considerable disquiet in the College among NCOs because at least one of those rooms is being blocked by an MFO Sgt and another by a Pte who is CBT (Can't Be Touched). Care to comment?

    As for the fact that there is more than one NCOs mess in the Curragh, its the same as having multiple officers messes - just plain wrong when that money should be put into living in accommodation. As for your time as a Mess NCO that's wrong too, in any Mess; Officers, NCOs or Ptes. Q staff should deal with all accommodation and the Canteen Board should run all messes paid for by the members. If the mess can't sustain the expense of Canteen Board staff then close the mess but retain the accommodation.

    But what about the central theme to this post. Should the two BSMs in the Mil Col NCOs mess not have to bunk in with Ptes/have the same standard as Ptes or should their accommodation be on par with a Comdt?

    The old officers dirty rooms and o/ranks clean rooms one is a complete joke. Of course when you INSPECT a soldiers room its going to be clean. He knows he's going to be inspected That's not the same as you being in officers room without his/her prior knowledge and finding it untidy.

    You want to see the state of some o/ranks quarters that I've seen while on patrol as O/O which were gleaming the week before on inspection. That's been the same game since Adam was a nipper. Come on now, that happens everywhere. They're not Recruits or Cadets anymore so give them some latitude. Breakage or damage is inexcusable but being untidy is a bit pedantic. On that note, in my experience with o/ranks it was 'prove that I broke it' with officers it was 'write a cheque now Captain'.

    I was a mess secretary for a period and found that only a minority of officers were untidy. My room was inspected once a month in USAC and CBB, but admittedly not in other posts where I served. I couldn't convince the Mess President to have inspections when I was Mess Sec but I would have them if I was Mess President. I'm sorry if any of those who have untidy rooms are not flogged on the square for the enjoyment of the mess staff but if it was warranted they would have got a PE from the Mess President. Do it a second time and its going in your file, the usually works :wink:
    Last edited by Jessup; 22nd August 2009 at 11:37.

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