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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    Listed building 200 years old with most of the original fabric built by Mitchell and other Fenians before going on holidays to Australia. The stairs are stone shiny surfaces the same design as the ones that collapsed at the Museum in Dublin. Not sure how it will work for housing 70 personnel of mixed F/M and varying ranks. The top floors in the middle Block, were used to lay out technical boards of Survey and stuff waiting to be sold/ disposed. The floors were planks of pitch pine or similar, gnarled and antique-great oily smell. The middle floor were for the items for issue and the ground floor was for big metal items, pipework, timbers. It had a double head height. I would have preferred that a new structure with an agreed cu.m space per person was planned to provide bunk, wardrobes, whb, desk, shower cubicle, Common room with fridge and hot/cold drinks facility and entertainment unit TV etc. Outside a decent parking area. Will it conform to planning eg 37 sq.m per single occ. unit or 45 sq.m for two occupants.
    I would prefer that all were single units self contained. Silk purses will always be different to Sows Ears.
    The one and only Review into Conditions in our Services was in 1992 which was a brave attempt to make Service Life more of the time and age we were in. It realised then that there were residential units in the PDF unfit for habitation. The strength at the time was 13,000 and what has happened since, slashed 4,500 personnel, closed barracks, deleted units, boarded up accommodation, developed a policy that looking after retention factors in the PDF was anachronistic. So much so that even the concept of providing medical and housing needs was redacted so that your average service person went to "work" like any civvy company worker. There is much under provision throughout the Services and neglect of retention factors will eventually become a political scandal.

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  3. #102
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    Isn't Block 8 the one where it is said grain was stored, and rotted, from non use, during the Famine?
    All that is currently stored in Block 8, where will that end up? I thought the plan was to refurbish block 9, 10 or the Hospital? It's as easy to refurbish a block in a state of total disrepair as it is to do so to a building in poor repair. The problem with the one in Poor repair is you end up saving things that would otherwise have ended up in the skip long ago.
    Attached photo of 9, 10 and hospital block as seen around 2008

    edit: I note the protective roof of the centre building had been put in place between 2006 and 2008, based on other photos I have.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by na grohmiti; 25th May 2020 at 13:18.
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  4. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    Isn't Block 8 the one where it is said grain was stored, and rotted, from non use, during the Famine?
    All that is currently stored in Block 8, where will that end up? I thought the plan was to refurbish block 9, 10 or the Hospital? It's as easy to refurbish a block in a state of total disrepair as it is to do so to a building in poor repair. The problem with the one in Poor repair is you end up saving things that would otherwise have ended up in the skip long ago.
    Attached photo of 9, 10 and hospital block as seen around 2008

    edit: I note the protective roof of the centre building had been put in place between 2006 and 2008, based on other photos I have.
    Knocking them would be cheaper

  5. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Knocking them would be cheaper
    Given that block 4 is still standing (braced) after a fire that destroyed all but its limestone walls, I doubt that. They were fine buildings in their time, and have only fallen into disrepair in the last 20 years.
    Many years ago ancientmariner and my father, me and others (then only a youngfella) sat next to each other in an office within the building where the temporary roof is now, as we both enjoyed a tour of a fully active Irish Steel. It suffered a fire sometime before the closure, which killed one of its staff. One not nearly as devastating to structure as that of Block 4,(which had timber stairs and flooring) but once the roof caved in it was open to the elements, and nobody cared.
    Indeed, a steel frame structure could easily bring block 4 back to life, if it wasn't for the reluctance of the OPW (and DoD) to do so, given that the fire itself did away with it's purpose, the storage of documents and artifacts from the naval service and before.
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  6. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    Given that block 4 is still standing (braced) after a fire that destroyed all but its limestone walls, I doubt that. They were fine buildings in their time, and have only fallen into disrepair in the last 20 years.
    Many years ago ancientmariner and my father, me and others (then only a youngfella) sat next to each other in an office within the building where the temporary roof is now, as we both enjoyed a tour of a fully active Irish Steel. It suffered a fire sometime before the closure, which killed one of its staff. One not nearly as devastating to structure as that of Block 4,(which had timber stairs and flooring) but once the roof caved in it was open to the elements, and nobody cared.
    Indeed, a steel frame structure could easily bring block 4 back to life, if it wasn't for the reluctance of the OPW (and DoD) to do so, given that the fire itself did away with it's purpose, the storage of documents and artifacts from the naval service and before.
    The whole Naval Base and it's future is still being subject to accidental unplanned interventions by Agencies that have NO interest in it's Service future. A forced sanitising of an area used as a dump for hazardous materials leaves us with a Cork Harbour Amenity Area in order to legitimise an unplanned expenditure in budgets. The departure of ISH has left us with a collection of buildings that were originally MOD property and are the age they are . The pragmatists are now out to fiddle with some buildings for billets of the "sure it will work out variety". In the meantime the remainder are there unwanted and unloved especially Block 4. They need to put in OUR drydock and gear the place for looking after 8/9 ships their crews and families. Just do it using the Brit template already there. Put back MQ's ,PO, and a Commissary for all residents together with laundry and drycleaning.

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  8. #106
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    The buildings behind the church have become very unloved of late. There was a time FORST had an office here, not sure if they still are, but I think once people move to better accom, their old building falls dormant. The product of an understaffed DF and BFW. The old water tank also (another listed ruin) commands a large footprint with zero usage. A footprint at least three times the area of any of the Vic Blocks. So, if the Air Corps can demolish all the RAF ww1 era hangard in Baldonnel and build modern hangars in their place, for operational reasons, why can't the navy do the same to it's Georgian Warehouses?
    Strangers who looked at an aerial photo of the island would assume Building 11 was the main square.
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  9. #107
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    Sure they can’t get sparks, plumbers etc to fix Accomodiation that is in active use

  10. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    Isn't Block 8 the one where it is said grain was stored, and rotted, from non use, during the Famine?
    All that is currently stored in Block 8, where will that end up? I thought the plan was to refurbish block 9, 10 or the Hospital? It's as easy to refurbish a block in a state of total disrepair as it is to do so to a building in poor repair. The problem with the one in Poor repair is you end up saving things that would otherwise have ended up in the skip long ago.
    Attached photo of 9, 10 and hospital block as seen around 2008

    edit: I note the protective roof of the centre building had been put in place between 2006 and 2008, based on other photos I have.

    As Block 8 has been out of use for approx 15 -20 years there is nothing stored inside that would be of use.

    Its contents will be removed i would imagine in the the refurb.

    Whilst this is a very positive move, the location is not ideal IMO.

    All accomodation blocks should be located together.

  11. #109
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    Not so much concerned about contents as fixtures and fittings.
    Well you can't widen that door because prince albert victor carved his initials on it during the royal visit...."
    Better to start with a clean slate completely.
    Long long ago HPT and I were rummaging about the junkyard in front of Block 8.
    Amongst the junk was the original radar antennae from L.E. Deirdre. Much larger than modern standard, possibly 10foot long. P20 was gone from service at this stage.
    Such is the junk that accumulates.
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  12. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    Not so much concerned about contents as fixtures and fittings.
    Well you can't widen that door because prince albert victor carved his initials on it during the royal visit...."
    Better to start with a clean slate completely.
    Long long ago HPT and I were rummaging about the junkyard in front of Block 8.
    Amongst the junk was the original radar antennae from L.E. Deirdre. Much larger than modern standard, possibly 10foot long. P20 was gone from service at this stage.
    Such is the junk that accumulates.
    With current accommodation mostly within the eyeshot of the Guard and Guardroom, the proposed accommodation in Block 8 will be outside the normal beat and will have to add to the security tasks for the OOD. The lighting will have to be improved and jack or jill going to their accommodation will be passing an open camber, which may have to be railed to prevent falling in.

  13. #111
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    If the intention is to accommodate crews of ships in refit and just that, then it is on the wrong side of the island for everything.
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  14. #112
    Commander in Chief Bravo20's Avatar
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    It's not that big of an island

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  16. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bravo20 View Post
    It's not that big of an island
    Its equally far away from everything. Except block 6.
    It should in my ignorant opinion either be closer to the ships or closer to the mess, but further away from block 6.
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  17. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    If the intention is to accommodate crews of ships in refit and just that, then it is on the wrong side of the island for everything.
    Not the intention to accommodate ships companies just in refit. Its to accommodate living in personnel who are posted to ships.

    This means the only persons onboard ship after secure will be the duty watch.

    No living in personnel resting off having to listen to pipes and chipping hammers.

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  19. #115
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  20. #116
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    If they are spending 4,400,000 then if you allow 16 sq.m per person ( Student allowance) and accommodate 70 then that gives E3859 per sq.m. which by ordinary standards is quite generous. Properly done it might have a chance of being decent.

  21. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    If they are spending 4,400,000 then if you allow 16 sq.m per person ( Student allowance) and accommodate 70 then that gives E3859 per sq.m. which by ordinary standards is quite generous. Properly done it might have a chance of being decent.
    Given it's a listed building I could see that being eaten up fairly quickly, I know how much a smaller 3 story building of about the same age took to refit and repair, it has the potential to burn through money fast. Opening up any building of that age to modernise it risks finding a whole list of unexpected issues.
    Last edited by Sparky42; 26th May 2020 at 00:39.

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  23. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    Not so much concerned about contents as fixtures and fittings.
    Well you can't widen that door because prince albert victor carved his initials on it during the royal visit...."
    Better to start with a clean slate completely.
    Long long ago HPT and I were rummaging about the junkyard in front of Block 8.
    Amongst the junk was the original radar antennae from L.E. Deirdre. Much larger than modern standard, possibly 10foot long. P20 was gone from service at this stage.
    Such is the junk that accumulates.
    Just looking at some of the "old" pictures it seems the accumulation of "junk" has a long history:
    https://www.facebook.com/pg/IrishNav...=page_internal

  24. #119
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    There was.some discussion about that collection of photos. The majority were taken when the National Army first took over the island, which had by then been mostly been abandoned by the Royal navy. Other photos were taken much later. By 1938 all british forces in Cork Harbour had retreated to the harbour forts, of which haulbowline was not one. The dockyard had been leased to a local scrap merchant, Haulbowline industries, who did well scrapping and converting WW1 era ships.
    It is an interesting collection though. It shows the condition of the facility when we took it over, and you can imagine the efforts required to bring it up to a useable standard, and the costs involved at a time when we had just come out of an economic war.
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  26. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    There was.some discussion about that collection of photos. The majority were taken when the National Army first took over the island, which had by then been mostly been abandoned by the Royal navy. Other photos were taken much later. By 1938 all british forces in Cork Harbour had retreated to the harbour forts, of which haulbowline was not one. The dockyard had been leased to a local scrap merchant, Haulbowline industries, who did well scrapping and converting WW1 era ships.
    It is an interesting collection though. It shows the condition of the facility when we took it over, and you can imagine the efforts required to bring it up to a useable standard, and the costs involved at a time when we had just come out of an economic war.
    We certainly had to do some tidying up. There was some work done by the unloved kids in the Construction Corps. It was interesting in the site investigation for the building of the New Officers Mess that the site was an old Island dump for domestic waste. They had to pillar and raft the foundation for the building. About Block 8 the main consideration will be the drylining and breathable insulation plus the internal ship like construction of beams, knees and pillars holding up all floors. Major rewiring and catering for modern communications, plus heating and cooling, privacy and( military term) ablutions .

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  28. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    We certainly had to do some tidying up. There was some work done by the unloved kids in the Construction Corps. It was interesting in the site investigation for the building of the New Officers Mess that the site was an old Island dump for domestic waste. They had to pillar and raft the foundation for the building. About Block 8 the main consideration will be the drylining and breathable insulation plus the internal ship like construction of beams, knees and pillars holding up all floors. Major rewiring and catering for modern communications, plus heating and cooling, privacy and( military term) ablutions .
    That has the potential to be a killer, what started as dealing with dampness in the house I'm thinking of ended up with every joist and header on every floor being rotten and needing replacement, it's a good bet that Block would have the same material and potentially it being in the same condition, that's fairly major structural work alone if it's found.

  29. #122
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    Is it time to sell the island to a developer, and start again in another port? That place must be worth a fortune, Tarquin could have his apartment and moor his yacht outside the front door. Would the money raised plus the money the DoD are planning to spend pay for a move?
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  30. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by spider View Post
    Is it time to sell the island to a developer, and start again in another port? That place must be worth a fortune, Tarquin could have his apartment and moor his yacht outside the front door. Would the money raised plus the money the DoD are planning to spend pay for a move?
    The island has a zone with hazardous chemicals in it, and listed buildings everywhere, Irish developers are nuts, but not that nuts. And if the DOD was true to form they'd just pocket the money and not bother setting up a new facility anywhere. If there was proper funding and a clear pathway the island would be more than enough I would say.

  31. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    The island has a zone with hazardous chemicals in it, and listed buildings everywhere, Irish developers are nuts, but not that nuts. And if the DOD was true to form they'd just pocket the money and not bother setting up a new facility anywhere. If there was proper funding and a clear pathway the island would be more than enough I would say.
    In fairness, developers have form for building houses on top of illegal dumps in West Wicklow

  32. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by spider View Post
    Is it time to sell the island to a developer, and start again in another port? That place must be worth a fortune, Tarquin could have his apartment and moor his yacht outside the front door. Would the money raised plus the money the DoD are planning to spend pay for a move?
    If you wanted to house the whole service and include stores, parade grounds , recreational facilities, repair yard and ordnance, a home for OPW component and road transport , Oil Depot and tanks, and in addition about 800m of quay wall with power take ups for 8/9 ships, fresh water, and waste disposal. You might build a new port in any deepwater harbour by reclamation, dredging , and a budget of some billions .

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