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  1. #1
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    Dressing up in uniform

    A guy told me that last Wednesday night he say a guy wearing his full uniform in the Students Union pub. I couldnt believe it, said it must be a US wood land uniform or something. Then on the Thursday night I was out in the Roost in Maynooth for a Halloween fancy dress parth shindig. low and behold I seen two guys in uniform, with desert boots, one had an RDF beret. Shirts and pants, one with a little bit of camo cream. But that wasnt all. i then seen a woman with dpm bottoms and a PDF beret.
    What the hell is wrong with some people??

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vamp369 View Post
    A guy told me that last Wednesday night he say a guy wearing his full uniform in the Students Union pub. I couldnt believe it, said it must be a US wood land uniform or something. Then on the Thursday night I was out in the Roost in Maynooth for a Halloween fancy dress parth shindig. low and behold I seen two guys in uniform, with desert boots, one had an RDF beret. Shirts and pants, one with a little bit of camo cream. But that wasnt all. i then seen a woman with dpm bottoms and a PDF beret.
    What the hell is wrong with some people??
    Theres no proof that the uniforms were theirs. For all one knows, they may be borrowed from a friend, brother, sister, swiped out of a housemates wardrobe etc. Secondly, whilst students can and will do silly things, I've seen much older people strut around in full dpm's whilst doing security at music festivals, who if they are serving personnel, should know better.

    Kit will fall into the wrong hands, will be given to others through people who have left or gotten bigger or smaller and who have kit that no longer fits.

    The reputation of German, British, Czech, US, French forces etc isn't dragged through the mud by people who wear surplus kit at parties, airsofting etc(and you could quite easily make yourself a full uniform from any of these countries on the cheap), what makes the PDF or RDF any different?

    Gobshites exist in all walks of life, and there's nothing you can do about that.

  3. #3
    Lieutenant Muzzle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by northie View Post
    The reputation of German, British, Czech, US, French forces etc isn't dragged through the mud by people who wear surplus kit at parties, airsofting etc(and you could quite easily make yourself a full uniform from any of these countries on the cheap), what makes the PDF or RDF any different?
    Its not sold suplous and there are a number of laws that make it illegal regardless of how they got it. What other countries do is up to them.

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  5. #4
    Sergeant Major spaceghetti's Avatar
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    I was told by various folks that as long as you remove the cap badge from the beret, remove the tricolor shoulder flash and velcro name yoke from the shirt or smock, then it makes that item of clothing legal to where in public as it's no longer considered part of the uniform.

    The law apparently states (i haven't read it, but it's what i've been told by higher ups) that you cannot wear the DF "uniform", nothing about not wearing DPM.

    The pants and bush hat and any rucksacks, bags and equipment that do not have any DF identification (DF logo or whatever) are perfectly legal to wear in public apparently.

    As for the shirt/smock, doing the above makes them legal.

    As for the beret.....i dunno why'd you wanna wear it anyways.

    The purpose of the uniform being illegal was to prevent people from infiltrating the DF and so on, but when those identifications are removed it allows members of the PDF to spot those trying anything like that, as well as making it no longer a uniform anyways.

    The reason smocks, shirts, pants and so on aren't sold in shops down here (the rare few are in the north) is because of these ID's. And the only way retailers are able to obtain them is apparently directly from the DF, who won't give it to them anyways. So any surplus any retailers may obtain (either by buying them from the DF, or just coming across some) is apparently not cost effective because they would have to remove these ID's from each individual garment.

    Now i'm not 100% sure of this, it's just what i've been told.

  6. #5
    private REX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amurph0 View Post
    I was told by various folks that as long as you remove the cap badge from the beret, remove the tricolor shoulder flash and velcro name yoke from the shirt or smock, then it makes that item of clothing legal to where in public as it's no longer considered part of the uniform.

    The law apparently states (i haven't read it, but it's what i've been told by higher ups) that you cannot wear the DF "uniform", nothing about not wearing DPM.

    The pants and bush hat and any rucksacks, bags and equipment that do not have any DF identification (DF logo or whatever) are perfectly legal to wear in public apparently.

    As for the shirt/smock, doing the above makes them legal.

    As for the beret.....i dunno why'd you wanna wear it anyways.

    The purpose of the uniform being illegal was to prevent people from infiltrating the DF and so on, but when those identifications are removed it allows members of the PDF to spot those trying anything like that, as well as making it no longer a uniform anyways.

    The reason smocks, shirts, pants and so on aren't sold in shops down here (the rare few are in the north) is because of these ID's. And the only way retailers are able to obtain them is apparently directly from the DF, who won't give it to them anyways. So any surplus any retailers may obtain (either by buying them from the DF, or just coming across some) is apparently not cost effective because they would have to remove these ID's from each individual garment.

    Now i'm not 100% sure of this, it's just what i've been told.
    You need to stop believing to the stories the lads are spinning.

    Irish dpm is legally owned by the minister for defence and can only be worn by members of the DF. Just because it is issued to you does not mean you own it, therefore you can not pass it on or sell it. If a non member of the DF has it, it is stolen property.

    As for removing badges, etc, well our DPM is an exclusive pattern owned and trade marked by the DF, which is why you do not see cheap knock off in our dpm pattern in the same way you would for british or US Dpm. With the badges removed it is still very identifiably Irish.

    It's time to stop taking the stories at face value, lads will spin any old yarn to pass the time, especially when they get a new and receptive audience. Don't feel bad we've all been there, but take everything with a large pinch of salt!!
    CRIME SCENE INSTIGATOR

  7. #6
    Sergeant Major spaceghetti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by REX View Post
    You need to stop believing to the stories the lads are spinning.

    Irish dpm is legally owned by the minister for defence and can only be worn by members of the DF. Just because it is issued to you does not mean you own it, therefore you can not pass it on or sell it. If a non member of the DF has it, it is stolen property.

    As for removing badges, etc, well our DPM is an exclusive pattern owned and trade marked by the DF, which is why you do not see cheap knock off in our dpm pattern in the same way you would for british or US Dpm. With the badges removed it is still very identifiably Irish.

    It's time to stop taking the stories at face value, lads will spin any old yarn to pass the time, especially when they get a new and receptive audience. Don't feel bad we've all been there, but take everything with a large pinch of salt!!
    Well actually the guy i got the info from is a guy who owns and runs an outdoor adventure club, and part of what they do is airsoft. And you know how airsoft guys try to look the business. Well apparently airsoft clubs around the country are in debate whether or not to ban Irish DPM being used by players altogether and are always up to date and informed on the laws made by the government that effect airsoft players.

    As for DPM, there's loads of legally sold Irish DPM stuff out there in Ireland if you look for it, Protac DPM as well as official DPM. The only thing not sold are the uniforms themselves.

    To anyone not in the DF or familiar with camo's, Irish camo looks like any other camo, and even some well informed folks often get it mixed up with French CCE.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    As for seeing guys in public with irish DPM. You would not believe the amount of people at oxegen who had irish DPM, and i mean full uniforms and kit. I saw guys with Irish DPM bergans and rucksacks, wearing Irish DPM ponchos, wet gear, everything. I saw a gang of about 5 guys in full uniform (minus beret) wrestling in the mud in front of the main stage.

    No one noticed they were wearing irish DPM or even thought they were real soldiers (if they were) they just thought they saw a bunch of guys dressed as soldiers, because to the general public ALL camo is the same.

  8. #7
    2/Lt Bam Bam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amurph0 View Post
    I was told by various folks that as long as you remove the cap badge from the beret, remove the tricolor shoulder flash and velcro name yoke from the shirt or smock, then it makes that item of clothing legal to where in public as it's no longer considered part of the uniform.

    The law apparently states (i haven't read it, but it's what i've been told by higher ups) that you cannot wear the DF "uniform", nothing about not wearing DPM.

    The pants and bush hat and any rucksacks, bags and equipment that do not have any DF identification (DF logo or whatever) are perfectly legal to wear in public apparently.

    As for the shirt/smock, doing the above makes them legal.

    As for the beret.....i dunno why'd you wanna wear it anyways.

    The purpose of the uniform being illegal was to prevent people from infiltrating the DF and so on, but when those identifications are removed it allows members of the PDF to spot those trying anything like that, as well as making it no longer a uniform anyways.

    The reason smocks, shirts, pants and so on aren't sold in shops down here (the rare few are in the north) is because of these ID's. And the only way retailers are able to obtain them is apparently directly from the DF, who won't give it to them anyways. So any surplus any retailers may obtain (either by buying them from the DF, or just coming across some) is apparently not cost effective because they would have to remove these ID's from each individual garment.

    Now i'm not 100% sure of this, it's just what i've been told.
    Unlawful wearing of uniform.

    264.—(1) If any person (not being a member of the Defence Forces) wears, without permission granted by or on behalf of the Minister, any uniform of the Defence Forces or any colourable imitation thereof, such person shall be guilty of an offence under this section and shall be liable on summary conviction thereof to a fine not exceeding ten pounds or, at the discretion of the court, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding three months.

    [GA] (2) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply in respect of the wearing of any uniform of the Defence Forces or any colourable imitation thereof in the course of a stage play or other dramatic representation or performance.

    [GA] (3) In this section the word "uniform" includes any distinctive part of a uniform.
    It is only by contemplation of the incompetent that we can appreciate the difficulties and accomplishments of the competent.

  9. #8
    Sergeant Major spaceghetti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bam Bam View Post
    Unlawful wearing of uniform.

    264.—(1) If any person (not being a member of the Defence Forces) wears, without permission granted by or on behalf of the Minister, any uniform of the Defence Forces or any colourable imitation thereof, such person shall be guilty of an offence under this section and shall be liable on summary conviction thereof to a fine not exceeding ten pounds or, at the discretion of the court, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding three months.

    [GA] (2) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply in respect of the wearing of any uniform of the Defence Forces or any colourable imitation thereof in the course of a stage play or other dramatic representation or performance.

    [GA] (3) In this section the word "uniform" includes any distinctive part of a uniform.
    So according to this, members of the defence forces are allowed to wear uniforms while off duty, but civvies can't?? Doesn't specify between duty and off duty.

    And Protac, Go tactical as well as this site and a few other websites and shops in Ireland are breaking the law by producing and selling official as well as imitation DPM gear to civvies??

    Not exceeding ten pounds? That, plus the fact that the guards don't care or probably don't know when they see Irish DPM, in my eyes make it legal. A 3 month conviction would only apply to people using it in a crime (ie, robbery, etc)

    And pounds?? How old is this source?? That law has changed since then i'm sure. Especially seeing as how nobody has shut down Protac or Gotactical, or this site or anywhere else for selling Irish DPM and imitation DPM gear acquired legally.

    Do you have a link to this documentation?

  10. #9
    Lt General Barry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amurph0 View Post
    Do you have a link to this documentation?
    It's called the Defence Act 1954

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1954/...018/index.html

    It contains the charges which a soldier can recieve under military law (sections 124 to 169 being the main ones). You obviously don't even know what the Defence Act is, thus you are in no position whatsoever to speculate on the lawfulness of wearing uniform.

    I suggest you look up sections 245, 260, 264 and 265. Bear in mind that this is an act of the dail, and thus is law (ie anyone can be arrested and charged by the gardai for the offences listed).

  11. #10
    Commander in Chief Bravo20's Avatar
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    The Act is the 1954 Defence Act. The rules have not changed the punishment is subject to an update legislation that translates fines at particular points in time to modern equivalent. The part you should concentrate on is the 3 months in prison bit.

    From what I can see Protac does not sell Irish DF uniforms.

  12. #11
    not dead yet ollie's Avatar
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    This is hardly a halloween issue, people go around wearing parts of dpm on a regular basis. One member i know wears it to college everyday .
    Anyone need a spleen ?

  13. #12
    Battalion Sargeant Major Snacker's Avatar
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    He's hardly a Cadet in the Military College is he??
    WARNING: Consumption of alcohol may lead you to believe that ex-lovers are really dying for you to ring them at 4am!!

  14. #13
    not dead yet ollie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snacker View Post
    He's hardly a Cadet in the Military College is he??
    In his dreams maybe, IT carlow
    Anyone need a spleen ?

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by amurph0 View Post
    That, plus the fact that the guards don't care or probably don't know when they see Irish DPM, in my eyes make it legal.
    Unless you're a judge that doesn't really count for a lot.

  16. #15
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    World hunger





    Domestic violence






    Homelessness




    Children victims of teh war on terrorism




    CLowns in fancy dress



    I must admit I too have sleepless nights worrying about clowns in fancy dress.

    Cna someone please point out to me where it says the DF owns the copyright/patent
    to Irish DPM Pattern-
    Last edited by hedgehog; 26th October 2009 at 14:08.
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
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  17. #16
    Sargent Major paul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hedgehog View Post
    World hunger





    Domestic violence






    Homelessness




    Children victims of teh war on terrorism




    CLowns in fancy dress



    Are you really really disturbed by the party goers
    Clowns in fancy dress defently!

    Of course not, Its not the most important thing ever but when you have loads of little things causing problems and big things, its the little thing that get in the way of resolving the big things.
    Don't stand there GAWPING, like you've never seen the hand of God BEFORE!!

  18. #17
    Sargent Major paul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bam Bam View Post
    a fine not exceeding ten pounds
    What would that be now aday's?
    Don't stand there GAWPING, like you've never seen the hand of God BEFORE!!

  19. #18
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    Clowns in fancy dress defently!

    Of course not, Its not the most important thing ever but when you have loads of little things causing problems and big things, its the little thing that get in the way of resolving the big things.
    So what your saying Paul is - if we stop idiots turning up to fancy dress parties/ concerts/ building sites etc

    then as a natural consequence of that action, world hunger will be solved- domestic violence ended-

    homelessness solved- and no inocent little baby will be killed in a conflict.

    Wow
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  20. #19
    2/Lt Bam Bam's Avatar
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    I dunno, google the defence act amendments.
    It is only by contemplation of the incompetent that we can appreciate the difficulties and accomplishments of the competent.

  21. #20
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bam Bam View Post
    I dunno, google the defence act amendments.
    Nope

    if someone says the DPM is trademark protected then let

    them prove it- otherwise this board would become

    a version of the daily mail/sun /mirror/ some other tabloid which I wont mention because of the truce of 2008
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  22. #21
    Sargent Major paul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hedgehog View Post
    So what your saying Paul is - if we stop idiots turning up to fancy dress parties/ concerts/ building sites etc

    then as a natural consequence of that action, world hunger will be solved- domestic violence ended-

    homelessness solved- and no inocent little baby will be killed in a conflict.

    Wow

    Ask any Garda for insintance, They'll tell you that they get stuck dealing with stupid little problems when they should be off dealing with more important matters, its the same everywhere.

    How can anyone be expected to fix problems half way across the world when there is someone sleeping outside their frount door and how can you deal with the person outside your door when your using what little money you have to replace your windows when some thug throws rocks threw them and how can the garda deal with them thugs when their off dealing without someone who was driving down the road drunk. Just one of many examples their are possible out there.
    Don't stand there GAWPING, like you've never seen the hand of God BEFORE!!

  23. #22
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    Ok then- rearrange the pictures in decreasing order of magnitude
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  24. #23
    Sargent Major paul's Avatar
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    Clowns in fancy dress (least)

    Domestic violence

    Homelessness

    Children victims of the war on terrorism

    World hunger (Most)

    Thats my view on it anyway, other peoples could differ in their prioity.
    Don't stand there GAWPING, like you've never seen the hand of God BEFORE!!

  25. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bravo20 View Post
    The Act is the 1954 Defence Act. The rules have not changed the punishment is subject to an update legislation that translates fines at particular points in time to modern equivalent. The part you should concentrate on is the 3 months in prison bit.

    From what I can see Protac does not sell Irish DF uniforms.

    The Defence Act is being updated as we speak.

  26. #25
    C/S ArdMhacha's Avatar
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    This really winds me up, I know I wasnt in the DF for very long but it just p1sses me right off.
    I went to a party in Drogheda on Halloween 2 years ago and seen some idiot wearing No. 1s (5th BN).
    What a douch bag

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