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  1. #1
    CQMS
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    New Rifle or Upgrade

    Looks like the thread on which rifle is the best will be answered. There is a board to sit on looking at a new rifle, upgrade, systems upgrade of the A3 . there is four options sorry cant remember the last one.

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  3. #2
    Sergeant Major spaceghetti's Avatar
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    What do you mean?

    ......you have seen the other thread yeah?

    http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com...ad.php?t=11151

    It was closed though. It went on for about 50 pages.

    On another note. Steyr Arms have released their own official STANAG compatible butt group. As opposed to the one by MSAR and the other by TPD for their own rifles which may not be completely compatible with the original AUG.

    Here:
    http://www.steyrarms.com/store/index...a-black-2.html

    If the MSAR and TPD parts are compatible with the original AUG then it should also be possible to convert it to use 6.8mm ammunition.

  4. #3
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    Sorry not really a tech head about weapons. All I know they are going to look at the Aug compare its to whats out there and upgrades of the Aug to see do we need to change or upgrade.

  5. #4
    Gunner concussion's Avatar
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    New optics please!
    "Attack your attic with a Steyr....as seen on the Late Late Show..."

  6. #5
    Captain Truck Driver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amurph0 View Post
    What do you mean?

    ......you have seen the other thread yeah?

    http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com...ad.php?t=11151

    It was closed though. It went on for about 50 pages....
    .... which presumably is why Holdfast started this thread, rather than post in the original one

    Hadn't heard this

    S' pose the selection of a new rifle would depend on a few things. Some to consider would be:

    1.
    Are we staying with a 5.56mm calibre ? Logic suggests so, as this is the current NATO standard

    2.
    The FN-FAL stayed in DF service for nigh on 40 years, the Steyr is being replaced after
    20 odd years. Does this suggest that the DF has not got VFM from the Steyr ? I don' t think
    so, just increased usage, with increased overseas missions. I think the Steyr has served us
    well, and the fact that the design is in service for almost 40 years suggests that it is
    doing the business

    3.
    Compatibility with current equipment (webbing, storage facilities,
    use of the rifle in vehicles, etc) - in other words, the same exhaustive
    tests carried out when selecting the Steyr

    4.
    Simplicity of use - the only crib I have with the AUG, I have to confess, is the ALO
    Too easy to disengage it with all that goes with that, and too difficult to re-engage it
    again without a key, screwdriver head, pliers, etc. Maybe some people have strong
    fingernails for this, but I just find this too fiddly

    I' m sure ye guys can come up with several more...
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  7. #6
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    My wish list for a new Steyr or new rifle altogether would be:

    - Illuminated definitve point of aim for night shooting.
    - Better (more combat effective) sling, preferably 3 point harness.
    - Selector switch instead of ALO (as rightly stated by TD).
    - Picatinny railing for accessories and various optics.
    - More comprehensive cleaning kit on issue.

  8. #7
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    [QUOTE=Truck Driver;304790]....

    2.
    The FN-FAL stayed in DF service for nigh on 40 years, the Steyr is being replaced after
    20 odd years. Does this suggest that the DF has not got VFM from the Steyr ? I don' t think
    so, just increased usage, with increased overseas missions. I think the Steyr has served us
    well, and the fact that the design is in service for almost 40 years suggests that it is
    doing the business

    QUOTE]

    The FN was in only in service with the PDF from 1961 to 1987, the steyr is coming up to the same milestone.

    They may decide to replace it or on an upgrade like new zealand that will keep it in service till around 2030
    Last edited by paul g; 11th June 2010 at 12:03.

  9. #8
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    I would have thought an upgrade was by far the most likely solution too. Any move to an intermediate caliber is several years away, if it ever happens. The Steyr is mechanically still very contemporary - the DF bought well in 86. There hasn't exactly been any great steps forward in firearms design in the last 20 years.

    The primary issue with the Steyr seems to be the sight and the lack of rails. A batch purchase of new receivers (or entire A3 weapons) would deal with these issues, without bringing about any need for revised training, maintenance or other changes. The DF could then go and buy some more modern combat optics - there's plenty of choice in the market at the moment.

  10. #9
    Lieutenant X-RayOne's Avatar
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    as has been said....most likely change if any would be rail system and accesories ( optics, torches, etc. ).

    the steyr has proved its reliability in desert, jungle, artic and temperate overseas missions and at home has been popular and again reliable since its introduction. its as effective as any of the newer developed rifles and has plenty of life left in it too.

    bearing in mind current financial restrictions on DF, cheapest option i would think it to upgrade rather than go through full trial program and then completely replace existing stock.
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  11. #10
    Lt Colonel Buck's Avatar
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    a rail system and selector switch would really be the only things that i could think of...the sling is a nice to have, not a need to have, the current one does the job. an upgrade then?
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  12. #11
    Sargent Major paul's Avatar
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    A3 weights a stupid amount and the one I held didn't even have a mag on it!

    An upgrade with rails, the safety selector from the A3 (gets rid of the ALO, as there is a semi and auto selection), possibly a stronger body group and the same or similar to the SA80 3-point sling. My two cents.
    Don't stand there GAWPING, like you've never seen the hand of God BEFORE!!

  13. #12
    Gunner concussion's Avatar
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    A bolt release would be nice aswell, but I'd settle for rails so we can add a range of decent optics/lasers.

    (if we count our rounds properly, we should always get our mag changes correct )
    "Attack your attic with a Steyr....as seen on the Late Late Show..."

  14. #13
    Sergeant Major spaceghetti's Avatar
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    I thought the PDF were already in the process of upgrading the optics to Elcans? Using an A2 housing group?

    Like what their using here:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/DFMagazi...16/uHFM70clZzU

  15. #14
    Sergeant Major spaceghetti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by concussion View Post
    A bolt release would be nice aswell, but I'd settle for rails so we can add a range of decent optics/lasers.

    (if we count our rounds properly, we should always get our mag changes correct )
    The MSAR STG-556 seems to have all those solutions.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZL4rzaFTkQ

    (You have to skip to 22:30 before they show the STG-556)

    OR!!!!

    we could get these!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am76xV8Aubk
    Last edited by spaceghetti; 11th June 2010 at 17:39.

  16. #15
    Sergeant Major spaceghetti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truck Driver View Post
    .... which presumably is why Holdfast started this thread, rather than post in the original one
    I meant that i didn't know what he meant and that if he was looking for info he could have gone to that thread.

  17. #16
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    I reckon they will go the upgrade route for now and eventually the A3.Cost too much to modify the ROPS,stores containers,LTAV's etc.
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  18. #17
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    If it isn't broken don't fix it, there is no money to do it but no harm seeing whats outthere i suppose.

  19. #18
    Captain Truck Driver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul g View Post
    The FN was in only in service with the PDF from 1961 to 1987,
    the steyr is coming up to the same milestone
    Really ? And what happened the FN in DF service AFTER that point ? It came into FCA service
    and soldiered on until approx 2001....
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

  20. #19
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    To be fair, you could hardly say it "soldiered" on in FCA service.
    Compared to it's frontline PDF service anyway!


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  21. #20
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    If I was youngish serving soldier with a likelihood of deployment to afghanistan or similar . I would wish for a 7.62 Nato upgrade .. But as I am not and will most probably only be carrying small stuff for my very close protection in the forseeable future then a 7.62 inter would do . Dont know if u could have a 7.62 version of a bullpup ,probably not

  22. #21
    Sargent Major paul's Avatar
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    Don't stand there GAWPING, like you've never seen the hand of God BEFORE!!

  23. #22
    Sergeant Major spaceghetti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BANDIT View Post
    If I was youngish serving soldier with a likelihood of deployment to afghanistan or similar . I would wish for a 7.62 Nato upgrade .. But as I am not and will most probably only be carrying small stuff for my very close protection in the forseeable future then a 7.62 inter would do . Dont know if u could have a 7.62 version of a bullpup ,probably not
    I don't think it would actually be possible to have a 7.62x51 conversion kit for the steyr. I think the round itself would actually be too long and there wouldn't be enough space behind the magazine for the gun lock group and so on. A complete redesign would be necessary i think.

  24. #23
    Sergeant Major spaceghetti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul View Post
    I've been looking for info for that ejection system (which is the same as in the FN F2000) and i can't find any info as to what would happen if he was firing up at an angle??? How would the round eject?

  25. #24
    Sargent Major paul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amurph0 View Post
    I've been looking for info for that ejection system (which is the same as in the FN F2000) and i can't find any info as to what would happen if he was firing up at an angle??? How would the round eject?

    From what I seen, all it does it eject the round into that ejection tube and the force of ejection forces it down the tube, so the following rounds push the previous rounds out the tube.
    Don't stand there GAWPING, like you've never seen the hand of God BEFORE!!

  26. #25
    Sergeant Major spaceghetti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul View Post
    From what I seen, all it does it eject the round into that ejection tube and the force of ejection forces it down the tube, so the following rounds push the previous rounds out the tube.
    Yeah i know that, but what would happen if you were shooting upwards?? The rounds wouldn't fall out, it would just jam.

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