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  1. #401
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by almaza View Post
    Dont forget RDF are civvies.
    Correction: Part time civvies, for some of our time we are also subject to military law.
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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  3. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truck Driver View Post
    You think ? What happens when the uniform is put on ?
    They are still civvies.

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  5. #403
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    Just beacuse a guy wears a uniform , Full or part time does not make him a soldier and I dont mean soemone who gets paid as a soldier. Some of the best soldiers are part timers ( Israel for example) , some of the best fighters are irregulars , Hizbollah , Muhajedeen, so waht difference

  6. #404
    Captain Truck Driver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by almaza View Post
    They are still civvies.
    No point debating with you on the subject

    Both Morpheus and I have already posted on the matter
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

  7. #405
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    Again, solely as an (interested) outsider, offering an opinion, the substantive points remain: At this point tender offerings would have been made on tender requests with very wide ranging parameters, so priorities are going to have be decided upon and choices made.

    It remains to be seen whether orders (if any) will be made for the big ticket items or the accessories, or a mix of both – and my opinion as an outsider - would be that a new housing group with rails, would dovetail quite nicely with the requirement for accessories, while keeping the existing folding foregrip . I don’t disagree at all with the need for upgrades and accessories, and definitely agree with the sentiment of being prepared for whatever eventuality – i’d usually reference history and human nature for this!.. not only current events. I also would think that torches, would have greater overall utility value, than lasers.
    (Below: something i wrote last night at the same time as my second message).

    We are of course, in the world of bean counters, and i’ve (almost) no doubt that individual soldiers may prefer to have a ‘hi-spec’ scope on their rifle. I think the Irish Army was very fortunate to have scopes as standard at such an early era, and i’m not convinced therefore, that the proposal then will be such a quantum leap, to justify a possible ‘military premium’ cost new scope. Essentially, it is not like the Irish Army would be elevating its rifles from iron/open sights, to the optics generation.

    (e.g. It seems in the USA that the price for the ACOG 4x32mm (Trijicon company) scope used by the US military, retails to the public at about $1,200 (says their site). Who knows what military bulk purchase cost would be, but not cheap judging by the comments on this board. R&D costs would surely have been recouped at this stage for this and other companies, so why the expense?
    As a random comparison in - terms of cost, optical glass, metals, moving parts and technology etc. – the ‘Canon G12’ 5x28mm camera – retails in Ireland at only €550. Scopes are fundamentally, Not a new technology, and they seem to be getting heavier e.g. compared to the SUSAT sight).

    Would most infantry realistically, all collectively get to use their scopes to anywhere near their full potential i.e. shooting and range-finding beyond 300m? I’m thinking not, and thinking issues of restricted funds, VFM and ‘the greater good’.

    If a ‘section’ was known to be about to get itself into trouble in an undetermined scenario e.g. UN troops in Chad/Liberia- like environ, in the ‘bush’, out in the open, or both, and the choice was:
    A) an upgrade of all 9 rifles to a 3-4x scope and a smattering of lasers, torches and new handgrips OR..,
    B) an AUG LMG (or 2?) for one/two part(s) of the section, an NVE, and a refurbished FN (ie marksman style 7.62mm) for the existing machinegun group, and maybe a few torches.

    Which would the line troops choose? - Option ‘A’ or ‘B’.
    It might depend on perspective and individual vs. the greater good. Would NCOs and officer’s choose option - ‘B’?
    Hint, its unlikely that both ‘A’ and ‘B’ would be financed.

    OPINIONS??? (on above and my first post)

  8. #406
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    Perhaps a red dot optic with the option of a multiplier is the way to go . this would provide the best of both world's , red dot for close contact / urban or snap shot , multiplier for longer range / open terrain .

  9. #407
    Provost colonel decker's Avatar
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    I'd say that in the current climate the Styer AUG is here to stay.
    OK Smith it’s Colonel Decker. I hate it when a plan comes together. You’re surrounded. I want you and Peck and Baracus, to throw out your weapons, all the ration packs you stole and come out with your hands up. You have fifteen seconds.

  10. #408
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    Quote Originally Posted by colonel decker View Post
    I'd say that in the current climate the Styer AUG is here to stay.
    Yes but not as we know it today

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  12. #409
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    Quote Originally Posted by colonel decker View Post
    I'd say that in the current climate the Styer AUG is here to stay.
    There's not much better out there, its still one of the best rifles ever designed.

  13. #410
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    I think Whinge Not has rasied sone very valid points in relation to the tender re upgrades. I attach hereunder an abstract from The Firearms Blog1.
    18Dwrote on January 11th, 2012 at 5:34 am Link To Comment | Reply To Comment
    The fixed power 4x optic is starting to fall by the wayside IMO. As a consultant for the SOPMOD program I can tell you that the search for more versatile optics is on the way and fixed 4x is not in the current requirements. As a matter of fact, the ACOG has been removed from the latest iteration of the SOPMOD kit. Operators are quickly finding out that a 4x optic severely limits your capabilities.
    I’ve never understood the mass issuing of the ACOG. For shooters with very specific duties it can be a good option, but for a general purpose optic (which is what it’s used for these days) it limits the shooter. Understand, that 4x isn’t a lot of magnification, so making Target ID’s and precision shooting at long range isn’t really the 4x optics strong suite. Neither is CQB a strong suite of the 4x. For a general purpose assault rifle, a 0x RDS is a much better choice. With a 5.56 M4A1 a good shooter can easily make hits out to 500m yet he is still setup for CQB and close in targets. Close range should be the soldiers priority unless he is a SDM or a sniper. Even the SDM should look at close range fighting as his priority.
    What it really comes down to is training! The military needs to start making shooting a priority. Weapons manipulation/shooting skills and tactics need to be looked at as 2 different categories of training

    Anyway the question could be asked why spend so much money on sights on a 5.56 RIFLE when the current 1.5x sight is adequate out to 300m. After 300m then the ballistics of the 5.56 have proven time and time again that thay are not the most appropriate. One of the arguements for the 5.56 introduction in the firdt place was that contacts occur often less than 100-200 Yds?
    Yes having another LMG ( even if it is 5.56) or even a 66m LAW ( the old type) or an RPG and a few additional refurbished FNs ( If only) would be a wiser investment . Perhaps even better med kits and training might even be a better use of funds. As regards Rifle grenades they probably are past their sell by date but several western armies still use them and they are very common in "third world type" outfits.

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  15. #411
    Non Temetis Messor The real Jack's Avatar
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    What are these pull-through's for? Impossible to use on the steyr as you'd have to coax it down the barrel.
    Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

  16. #412
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    Quote Originally Posted by almaza View Post
    They are still civvies.
    Everyone is a citizen first.

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  18. #413
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    i have one of those pull throughs..
    the df got a lot of them a few years back.. they are good but do have to be coaxed through the barrel first so not ideal for been on an op but grand when back in bks and cleanin your rifle they also came with the attachment to clean the barrel(not sure of proper name) it looked like a mini mop head-very good at its job

  19. #414
    Closed Account Docman's Avatar
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    Australia seems to be upgrading their F88 as well - or it seems to be more of a newly built F88

    Like the GL trigger inside the trigger guard. The bolt release is also a good idea now I think about it.



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    Last edited by Docman; 7th November 2012 at 17:02.

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  21. #415
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    Quote Originally Posted by Docman View Post
    Australia seems to be upgrading their F88 as well - or it seems to be more of a newly built F88

    Like the GL trigger inside the trigger guard. The bolt release is also a good idea now I think about it.



    http://rogueadventurer.com/2012/11/0...nade-launcher/
    Nice, makes sense.
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  22. #416
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    The bolt release is also a good idea now I think about it.
    Why?
    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

  23. #417
    Closed Account Docman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    Why?
    You are firing the weapon, magazine goes empty, the bolt release is just above your fingers. Saves you having to re-cock the weapon. Think how handy it would be in a rapid practice on the range if you mis counted your rounds!

  24. #418
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    I'd like to hear Apod's opinion on it before making a comment, but you aren't really recocking as an empty mag leaves the action to the rear anyway.


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  26. #419
    Closed Account Docman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish View Post
    I'd like to hear Apod's opinion on it before making a comment, but you aren't really recocking as an empty mag leaves the action to the rear anyway.
    I do know how the weapon works - you are still having to pull the cocking handle to the rear fully and release it - re-cock it, something a bolt release catch would negate.
    Last edited by Docman; 7th November 2012 at 22:19.

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  28. #420
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    I'm glad you pointed out you know how the weapon works.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  29. #421
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    I dunno lads.I think using a bolt release button like the one shown would probably speed up reloads,but it may also have disadvantages.The lever/button shown is unshrouded. Could pressing it against yourself(CBA,CEFO etc) cause a problem at a crucial time?I am unsure.Someone who has used an A3 might be better informed and better placed to comment.
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  31. #422
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    Quote Originally Posted by Docman View Post
    The bolt release is also a good idea now I think about it.
    The Wings A3's have a bolt release.

  32. #423
    Private 3* Jungle's Avatar
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    We also have a bolt release on the C7-C8 FoW, but we teach troops not to use it. I don't know about your Steyr A3, but on our rifles it is a small button on the side of the weapon.
    Using the bolt release is a fine motor skill, while using the cocking handle is a gross motor skill; we prefer the gross, and it means one less movement for your muscle memory to learn.
    "On the plains of hesitation, bleach the bones of countless millions, who on the very dawn of victory, laid down to rest, and in resting died.

    Never give up!!"

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  34. #424
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jungle View Post
    We also have a bolt release on the C7-C8 FoW, but we teach troops not to use it. I don't know about your Steyr A3, but on our rifles it is a small button on the side of the weapon.
    Using the bolt release is a fine motor skill, while using the cocking handle is a gross motor skill; we prefer the gross, and it means one less movement for your muscle memory to learn.
    Steyr AUG A3 with external bolt release on left side off butt group above magazine release catch.

    Attached Images Attached Images
    • File Type: jpg A3.jpg (26.4 KB, 4593 views)

  35. #425
    Lieutenant X-RayOne's Avatar
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    Where the bolt release is positioned on the A3 would certainly be handy as you replace the fresh mag with left hand but how much time would it really save you?

    Apod made good point about it banging off webbing, CBA, etc. if wearing gloves how sensitive would it be?

    With cocking handle to rear for empty mag its a natural hand movement to continue with...mag in, hook cocking handle and release, hand forward to pistol grip.
    Fate whispers to the warrior, "There is a storm coming"

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