Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

EPV for naval service

Collapse
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
    But do you not see the usefulness of the EPV in a disaster situation such as this as a floating command centre for Irish led operations?
    Apparently DFA have a Rapid Response Corps for humanitain emergencies.



    Imagine if the state also had not only an MRV but airlift to deploy this asset, send an advanced party out by air with an Initial Response Kit, then call back to Ireland tell them what extra personnel and equipment is needed, load up the MRV and like you said use it as a base of operations on site.

    Maybe now their will be movement on this with both the DoD and DFA under one Minister, who will also responsible for a seat on the UNSC.
    It was the year of fire...the year of destruction...the year we took back what was ours.
    It was the year of rebirth...the year of great sadness...the year of pain...and the year of joy.
    It was a new age...It was the end of history.
    It was the year everything changed.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
      Why RFA Argus? She is in the Caribbean.
      Much of the aid will be required once the initial recovery is done. This is has had a major impact on local infrastructure, much of which may not be clear for a week or 2. At the moment the priority is dealing with wounded and locating the missing.
      Next week the hospital that suffered damage in the explosion may need to be closed so it can be assessed and rebuilt. You'll need somewhere for patients to go. At present their COVID19 patients are being treated in what was the hospital car park.
      The Container Port in Beirut is not far from the bulk terminal, but does not appear to have been damaged, though much of the machinery may need to be assessed. Photos show the container cranes are still standing, they would be kneeling if they were overbalanced in the most minuscule of ways.

      But do you not see the usefulness of the EPV in a disaster situation such as this as a floating command centre for Irish led operations?
      The blog that you linked earlier referred to RFA Argus not just HMS Enterprise.

      I agree the container port does not seem to be damaged but right next to it is a passenger ferry on her side. So I would hope that the facility is OK but fear that it might have suffered too much to go straight back into action. At least they have a second option.

      As for the hospital issue, the people of Beirut are resourceful as hell. There will be by the weekend at least 3 field hospitals in country and hopefully quickly up and running. The two from Qatar will provide care for up to 1,000 people. If I look a bit to the north to Turkey; they have several container based field hospitals and should Lebanon request I am sure that Israel would also provide some of their equipment (might have to go via UNIFIL). IMHO we would be better off having a container based field hospital and transporting it with the EPV than relying on a limited bed facility onboard. That is fine for the start of an operation where there is little or no shore based facilities but IMHO I think here other options would be better.

      I do see the usefulness of the EPV for DR such as this. At a minimum the deployed personnel should not be an additional drain on the local resources. They need to be feed, watered and rested, here the EPV is a great asset. Then as you mentioned it would provide a command centre but not only that, it would be able to provide maintenance and repair facilities for any equipment deployed.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
        Is this a good time to say that if we had an EPV today it would probably be heading to Beirut to assist, delivering Aid, specialised search teams and perhaps act as a floating medical facility? (assuming it wasn't already there).
        From memory of the resupply trips of old, the P20s could be there in 2 weeks, stopping on the way for fuel and stores when they weren't in a hurry. Took L.E. Niamh 9 days to get to the Suez Canal, including a 2 day stop at Valetta on the way on her trip to Asia in 2002.
        The Indonesian contingent in Lebanon is assisting, no mention of the Irish unit or Ireland as yet. A ship is an asset as an on site office and a rear link to home and the Irish Unit in Lebanon. Air Lingus still have aircraft etc. Money would help say 5m from the Overseas aid.

        Comment


        • Wouldn't we need a UN Security Council resolution to deploy?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Graylion View Post
            Wouldn't we need a UN Security Council resolution to deploy?
            That’s a point!
            'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
            'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
            Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
            He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
            http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Graylion View Post
              Wouldn't we need a UN Security Council resolution to deploy?
              As it is HADR mission it should be covered by the Defence Amendment Act 2006

              http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2...d/en/html#sec3

              Therefore it should only require the government decision.

              Comment


              • Lots of things to like about this.



                128+ standard modules
                The Cube consists of 128+ standard modules that fulfil common demands. But it is also possible to order custom-made modules that fit specific needs. The innovative shell is designed to protect the equipment and ensure it is fully reliable and operating seamlessly in both arctic areas and regions with extreme heat. All equipment is tested and proven and already in use by naval vessels worldwide.

                Mission-ready in 4 hours
                The modules fit ISO-standard container footprint sizes 20’ to 40’ and can easily be transported overland by train or truck or via aircraft. There is no need for special transports. Furthermore, the equipment can be quickly exchanged in any harbour and only requires a flat loading surface. And once onboard the modules are “plug and play” ready to use.

                “Due to the easy logistics and the quick and cost-efficient exchange of function, the vessel is literally mission-ready within hours”, says René Bertelsen. He also points out that any vessel can benefit from the system.
                For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                Comment


                • There is every convenience in having specific ship outfits containerised, particularly laid up ships that are being re-equipped for full service. The Brits had a system called Chatham Containers or Chatcons, pronounced Chaycons. When we took over two empty CMS everything we needed was in Chatcons, galley gear, bedding, seamanship gear, radio equipment, navigation equipment, CMS equipment, and so on. They were dropped at the ships in sequence and items tallied on board. The Cube system is a different kettle of fish which requires the ship to be retrofitted to take the equipment units in Hull Pods. In effect the ship must be rebuilt to house units or fitted for as a new build. No doubt an MRV could accept many plug-in and play systems to adapt for role tasks. HADR missions in peaceful settings, and due to natural disasters, should not need special mandates. Just a national willingness to help.
                  Last edited by ancientmariner; 5 October 2020, 16:44.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                    There is every convenience in having specific ship outfits containerised, particularly laid up ships that are being re-equipped for full service. The Brits had a system called Chatham Containers or Chatcons, pronounced Chaycons. When we took over two empty CMS everything we needed was in Chatcons, galley gear, bedding, seamanship gear, radio equipment, navigation equipment, CMS equipment, and so on. They were dropped at the ships in sequence and items tallied on board. The Cube system is a different kettle of fish which requires the ship to be retrofitted to take the equipment units in Hull Pods. In effect the ship must be rebuilt to house units or fitted for as a new build. No doubt an MRV could accept many plug-in and play systems to adapt for role tasks. HADR missions in peaceful settings, and due to natural disasters, should not need special mandates. Just a national willingness to help.
                    They are already ISO TEU sized. Modules like this have been a common sight in certain types for some time, P31 has been converted to hold TEU on the former helideck, as well as within the hangar (once correct handling equipment is available, do you remember what the Hangar flying crane was rated for?). Many modern designs have included space for TEU on and in the structure, often under the helideck. The NZ OPV based on the P50 type has such an arrangement.

                    As we are talking about a newbuild here, and as all our fleet have decks equipped to take, 1, 3 or 6 TEU, then surely this is a useful asset going forward.
                    Chatcons sound like the lockers they had in Cav, where anything removable from a vehicle was stored in, and locked after the vehicle was used. Mirrors, Periscopes, crew helmets, coax mounts etc. Only took a an hour or so to put it all back in before use.

                    Not the same thing at all though.
                    For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                      They are already ISO TEU sized. Modules like this have been a common sight in certain types for some time, P31 has been converted to hold TEU on the former helideck, as well as within the hangar (once correct handling equipment is available, do you remember what the Hangar flying crane was rated for?). Many modern designs have included space for TEU on and in the structure, often under the helideck. The NZ OPV based on the P50 type has such an arrangement.

                      As we are talking about a newbuild here, and as all our fleet have decks equipped to take, 1, 3 or 6 TEU, then surely this is a useful asset going forward.
                      Chatcons sound like the lockers they had in Cav, where anything removable from a vehicle was stored in, and locked after the vehicle was used. Mirrors, Periscopes, crew helmets, coax mounts etc. Only took a an hour or so to put it all back in before use.

                      Not the same thing at all though.

                      P60s can carry 3 20ft TEU and have power outlets for same if required.

                      Diving Section containers carried on most of the 60s since their introduction incl the ROV control TEU.

                      Should be expanded on the MRV.

                      The sounds are positive about the tender going out early 2021.

                      P31 will prob remain in commission until MRV is substantially complete

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by A/TEL View Post
                        P60s can carry 3 20ft TEU and have power outlets for same if required.

                        Diving Section containers carried on most of the 60s since their introduction incl the ROV control TEU.

                        Should be expanded on the MRV.

                        The sounds are positive about the tender going out early 2021.

                        P31 will prob remain in commission until MRV is substantially complete
                        Wonder will there be any leaks about the tender before hand?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
                          Wonder will there be any leaks about the tender before hand?
                          Tenders don't leak. When they do they can be costly. Everyone gets to see the RFT at the same time, nobody gets to see the Tender submissions until after the closing date, and even once a decision is made, things are shut down pretty tight.
                          It was a long time before we saw any render of the P60 design, and only because the designers were keen to promote the type for other competitions.
                          For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                            They are already ISO TEU sized. Modules like this have been a common sight in certain types for some time, P31 has been converted to hold TEU on the former helideck, as well as within the hangar (once correct handling equipment is available, do you remember what the Hangar flying crane was rated for?). Many modern designs have included space for TEU on and in the structure, often under the helideck. The NZ OPV based on the P50 type has such an arrangement.

                            As we are talking about a newbuild here, and as all our fleet have decks equipped to take, 1, 3 or 6 TEU, then surely this is a useful asset going forward.
                            Chatcons sound like the lockers they had in Cav, where anything removable from a vehicle was stored in, and locked after the vehicle was used. Mirrors, Periscopes, crew helmets, coax mounts etc. Only took a an hour or so to put it all back in before use.

                            Not the same thing at all though.
                            What is clear is the CUBE system is an industry lead proposal requiring a purpose built ship or a ship like Eithne with plenty of space for fitting modular units. Picking another idea to fling into the MRV without an analysis of her proposed, or issued specification, is just muddying waters, given the range of handling equipment required and apertures in the hull. Certainly some modular units can and maybe fitted to the MRV but let's see what is proposed. Right now innovative industry is looking for homes for their bright ideas but those ideas can specialise ships too much. Saying you can role change in 4hrs is useless if you are 4000 miles from home and find your not outfitted for the needed role.

                            Comment


                            • It is not new nor is it industry looking for homes for bright ideas. The Danish StanFlex modular system has been around for decades and a lot of real military vessels in the past decade or so have been developed to utilize containerised modular systems. There has been however a lack of systems available on the market, so this is just a response to that demand. The USN LCS concept was designed around a flexible mission space, most new European frigates are design with spaces for such modules. A good example is the Damen X-deck system which is typical of most systems in being a flexible space for TEU based modular systems. By basing everything on the ISO container it standarises a lot of things such as handling and other interfaces. It is just like loading a cargo container but that it contains systems that can be integrated into the vessels own systems.

                              As for being 4000 miles away; that is easy for real militaries, as the modules are just loaded into their military transport aircraft (C-130, A-400M, C-17) and flown out to the nearest harbour.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                                It is not new nor is it industry looking for homes for bright ideas. The Danish StanFlex modular system has been around for decades and a lot of real military vessels in the past decade or so have been developed to utilize containerised modular systems. There has been however a lack of systems available on the market, so this is just a response to that demand. The USN LCS concept was designed around a flexible mission space, most new European frigates are design with spaces for such modules. A good example is the Damen X-deck system which is typical of most systems in being a flexible space for TEU based modular systems. By basing everything on the ISO container it standarises a lot of things such as handling and other interfaces. It is just like loading a cargo container but that it contains systems that can be integrated into the vessels own systems.

                                As for being 4000 miles away; that is easy for real militaries, as the modules are just loaded into their military transport aircraft (C-130, A-400M, C-17) and flown out to the nearest harbour.
                                To be efficient modular systems in their different combat roles are produced in a separate stream and timeline to the ships that it may eventually be fitted in. A ship built 5 years ago, to accept modular additions would essentially become a new combat unit every time it is refitted with updated container systems. You then face deciding to design ships for maximum longevity so that these cyclical changes can take place 3 to 5 times over the ships lifetime. It requires deep pockets and constant crew re-appraisal and replacement to meet operational needs. Perhaps even multirole crews?

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X