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  • Originally posted by DeV View Post
    Eh no



    Absolutely but NGOs don’t generally want to play with the military

    Some won’t even get involved with CIMIC ex’s (never mind ops)
    Having a facility such as a HADR capable ship allows for inter agency planning and mutual assistance in the event of an urgent incident at home or elsewhere. In emergencies certain non-military medical expertise may have to be requested from HSE/Government for the period of the task.
    Our navy has it's own fuel and lubricant storage ashore. We dispose of waste materials as approved by International Standards. I'm not certain how today's waste handling is processed but now in addition to dry waste , food contaminated waste needs to be refrigerated for the duration until disposed of ashore. Surface ships produce about 1.5 lbs per person per day of disposable waste, or a tonne for a 28 day trip with 50 crew. Obviously medical waste has to be specially handled, sharps etc., some can be processed into sewage tanks for disposal. There are HADR operations manuals available including on-line from the RNZN. Camp Bastion was operated by mainly trauma hospital staffs and specialists. We should be no different in planned incidents.

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    • Obviously medical waste has to be specially handled, sharps etc., some can be processed into sewage tanks for disposal.
      All medical waste is exported from the country to be incinerated, illegal to add it to anything but medical waste.
      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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      • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
        All medical waste is exported from the country to be incinerated, illegal to add it to anything but medical waste.
        al

        It is exported as the EPA and political spokesmen overturned the procedures put in place by individual hospitals. Some have their own incinerators but parallel with that you have specialist waste disposal companies who provide bins and wish to keep their handling chain intact and add cost to the whole bloody business. Ships follow Marpol Regulations as amended from time to time and Port regulations as applicable.

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        • Some have their own incinerators but parallel with that you have specialist waste disposal companies who provide bins and wish to keep their handling chain intact and add cost to the whole bloody business
          None of the incinerators that were used met with the emissions levels required around the destruction of medical waste, hence it needed to be outsourced, you need to understand what medical waste is and how significant an issue is. There are sites with items in storage that cannot be economically got rid off.

          Take for instance a hospital mattress bed, should that be contaminated by bodily fluids it becomes medical waste... how does it be come contaminated when there is a rubber membrane around it?... Doctors sticking needles in them!

          A number of years ago hospitals had 40 ft containers full of old xrays that were expensive to destroy due to the metal content... until someone discovered there is a degree of pure silver in the films.. hey presto, couldn't get rid of them fast enough!

          And then all the cytotoxic waste.....related to chemo and radium therapy.....Medical waste , big business.
          Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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          • This is no longer a topic, it's a train wreck! We are talking about a class of ship that it seems remarkable clear is never going to happen. Now we are on the disposal of medical waste, Gwad knows where it's going next!!!
            "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
            Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
            Illegitimi non carborundum

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            • Originally posted by Turkey View Post
              This is no longer a topic, it's a train wreck! We are talking about a class of ship that it seems remarkable clear is never going to happen. Now we are on the disposal of medical waste, Gwad knows where it's going next!!!
              Someone started down the Hospital ship route... blame Enda Kenny!
              Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Turkey View Post
                This is no longer a topic, it's a train wreck! We are talking about a class of ship that it seems remarkable clear is never going to happen. Now we are on the disposal of medical waste, Gwad knows where it's going next!!!
                bit like eithne, class of ship that did not fullfill her role with no helis no surface to air radar . so why would they go down that route again,

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                • Originally posted by zone 1 View Post
                  bit like eithne, class of ship that did not fullfill her role with no helis no surface to air radar . so why would they go down that route again,
                  Eithne did fulfill her intended role , albeit briefly until policy and technology overtook the tools that made her unique

                  Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                  • how do you make that out, no heli no air defence radar , dont see alot in technology gains in that. if anything stripping her down to BIG PV nothing more pure waste.

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                    • Originally posted by zone 1 View Post
                      how do you make that out, no heli no air defence radar , dont see alot in technology gains in that. if anything stripping her down to BIG PV nothing more pure waste.
                      Because it did have a heli (wasn’t deployed very often but it was there) and it did have an air search radar (which AFAIK was linked to the 57mm)

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                      • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                        Because it did have a heli (wasn’t deployed very often but it was there) and it did have an air search radar (which AFAIK was linked to the 57mm)
                        it had lots of things , so why try go down that route again it has been done and failed. most capable ship in the history of the navy and it was taken away because heli didnt want to land. well what a waist of tax payer money, so the most advanced ship in the fleet was basically turned into PV because it couldnt keep up with technology or it was to advanced for what we needed..

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                        • Originally posted by zone 1 View Post
                          it had lots of things , so why try go down that route again it has been done and failed. most capable ship in the history of the navy and it was taken away because heli didnt want to land. well what a waist of tax payer money, so the most advanced ship in the fleet was basically turned into PV because it couldnt keep up with technology or it was to advanced for what we needed..
                          Going back over ship type histories is instructive. We had all those capabilities and could have had more if the DA05 targeting had been fully integrated with the Bofrs 57mm. The ship brought the knowledge base in the service to a higher level and introduced electrical/electronic officers to sea duty. We were fully Helicopter- on - Ship trained with all required facilities. We must now pursue ship types with a helicopter flight deck capable of providing
                          a land-on facility for most types of shipborne rotary aircraft. In joint exercises or common Task Groups such decks provide ease of access and an alternative deck for those that need it for fuel or refuge. We must never again depend on other units for the functionality of our ships nor should we have redacted any part of our capability.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by zone 1 View Post
                            it had lots of things , so why try go down that route again it has been done and failed. most capable ship in the history of the navy and it was taken away because heli didnt want to land. well what a waist of tax payer money, so the most advanced ship in the fleet was basically turned into PV because it couldnt keep up with technology or it was to advanced for what we needed..
                            The change in fisheries policy meant there was no requirement for the helo in the perceived role after a given time, plus its was the wrong helo for the job and internal wranglings in the AC meant that the NS was not prioritized, bearing in mind the helo at sea had limited capabilities.

                            Everything else about the ship remains in place with its capabilities enhanced during its life time. Adding a basic flight deck to any future ship would not be impossible and it would enhance the role of future ships, what we learned from the Eithne model is what you can't do with helos from certain sized ships.

                            North Atlantic sea state changes have shown that the Eithne hull form is sub optimal for Helo ops so this played into the change as well.

                            Eithne is now nearing the end of her time which may come quicker than some would think and we need to have a replacement in place that will be as ground breaking as Eithne was back in 1985
                            Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                            Comment


                            • If the DF ever goes down that route again, then the Helicopters will have to be Navy owned, Navy operated, and Navy maintained...and they will have to be real helicopters, not the present near useless toys.
                              "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
                              Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
                              Illegitimi non carborundum

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                                The change in fisheries policy meant there was no requirement for the helo in the perceived role after a given time, plus its was the wrong helo for the job and internal wranglings in the AC meant that the NS was not prioritized, bearing in mind the helo at sea had limited capabilities.

                                Everything else about the ship remains in place with its capabilities enhanced during its life time. Adding a basic flight deck to any future ship would not be impossible and it would enhance the role of future ships, what we learned from the Eithne model is what you can't do with helos from certain sized ships.

                                North Atlantic sea state changes have shown that the Eithne hull form is sub optimal for Helo ops so this played into the change as well.

                                Eithne is now nearing the end of her time which may come quicker than some would think and we need to have a replacement in place that will be as ground breaking as Eithne was back in 1985
                                P 31 was dynamically evaluated, using motion and wind sensors, by a French Naval maritime trials team, off the South coast, West of Kinsale. The trials results surprised the Lead Scientist as the flight deck motions were better than D610 Tourville and could provide a good environment for a Dauphin. There were 5 Dauphins, of which two were marinised for use with ships and harpoon landings. They were used as an integrated unit by the AC and tasked accordingly immediately impacting availability slots for potential ship board use. In one coastal SAR mission a marinised Helo became a fatal casualty reducing the marine capability of helos to one. This usage coupled with a reluctance to a permanent deployment to sea terminated the project. The North Atlantic is a large body of water subject to the variability of the Gulf Stream and cyclone tracks towards the British Isles. Wave heights always vary with changes in frequency of wave heights for 1/50 years and 1/100 years. We can say in standard storms, force 10+, that waves approaching 15/20m are probable, however everybody is battened down or sheltering if forewarned.

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