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  • So we can only deploy as part of an EU Battlegroup if the Russians and Chinese say we can. Why would any Battlegroup want us in it as we have to ask the UN and not the EU if we can go and play. The Triple lock can be kept but amended to UN Security Council and or EU Parliament Resolution.

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    • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
      So we can only deploy as part of an EU Battlegroup if the Russians and Chinese say we can. Why would any Battlegroup want us in it as we have to ask the UN and not the EU if we can go and play. The Triple lock can be kept but amended to UN Security Council and or EU Parliament Resolution.
      Ask the Nordics in 2008, 2011 and 2015
      Ask the U.K. in 2016
      Ask the Germans in 2012 & 2016

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        • A five year old article on a missed opportunity.
          For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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          • Originally posted by DeV View Post
            Ask the Nordics in 2008, 2011 and 2015
            Ask the U.K. in 2016
            Ask the Germans in 2012 & 2016
            It is one thing to be part of a training, but if the call comes to deploy a EUBG of which we are part and there is no UN SC resolution then we will get left behind. If next year to support the peace process in Ukraine the EU decides to deploy the EUBG as a buffer force with the co-operation of the government of the Ukraine but Russia objects in the UNSC then we will not be deployed.

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            • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
              It is one thing to be part of a training, but if the call comes to deploy a EUBG of which we are part and there is no UN SC resolution then we will get left behind. If next year to support the peace process in Ukraine the EU decides to deploy the EUBG as a buffer force with the co-operation of the government of the Ukraine but Russia objects in the UNSC then we will not be deployed.
              EU Battlegroups have been around for 12 years (not just ones with Irish involvement) Lots of violence around the world. Deployments zero. Serious proposals for deployment zero. Discussion of possible deployment 1

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              • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                EU Battlegroups have been around for 12 years (not just ones with Irish involvement) Lots of violence around the world. Deployments zero. Serious proposals for deployment zero. Discussion of possible deployment 1
                Another conclusion to draw from that is that if the EU battle group gets deployed, then the excrement will really be hitting the fan, and that’s not the kind of time to be starting to have the debate about should Ireland get its hands dirty or not. That decision needs to have been made beforehand.
                'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
                'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
                Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
                He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
                http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

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                • Originally posted by Flamingo View Post
                  Another conclusion to draw from that is that if the EU battle group gets deployed, then the excrement will really be hitting the fan, and that’s not the kind of time to be starting to have the debate about should Ireland get its hands dirty or not. That decision needs to have been made beforehand.
                  You realise that in order for a EU Battlegroup to be deployed there needs to be an unanimous decision of the European Union (all EU Heads of State have to agree to it (not sure if Denmark is included)).

                  Each country in the Battlegroup(s) that is on standby have the right to refuse to deploy Their troops on a particular operation

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                  • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                    You realise that in order for a EU Battlegroup to be deployed there needs to be an unanimous decision of the European Union (all EU Heads of State have to agree to it (not sure if Denmark is included)).

                    Each country in the Battlegroup(s) that is on standby have the right to refuse to deploy Their troops on a particular operation
                    No, I wasn’t aware of the mechanism. I see what you mean, it’s not exactly a QRF! But having to get UN Security Council approval on top of that level of oversight and approval from the EU (which, face it, is allowed by the Dail to have a huge say in every other aspect of Irish law and life) seems to be at best an unnecessary delay, and at worse, a rejection of the ability of the EU to provide proper oversight of it’s actions.

                    Let’s face it, the EU is made up of like minded economically linked democracies all of whom voluntarily joined. Why are they seen as somehow incapable of providing objective oversight when the de-facto dictatorships of Russia and China (in their guise as permanent members of the Security Council) are somehow seen by the Irish government as honest brokers with a veto?

                    It is an issue that does need to be addressed.
                    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
                    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
                    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
                    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
                    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                      You realise that in order for a EU Battlegroup to be deployed there needs to be an unanimous decision of the European Union (all EU Heads of State have to agree to it (not sure if Denmark is included)).

                      Each country in the Battlegroup(s) that is on standby have the right to refuse to deploy Their troops on a particular operation
                      Yes I am aware and it needs the full council approval, that includes Denmark. By the way it is not all the Heads of State, our President does not sit on the council, nor does the Queen. Apart from that the point is that within Europe all others can decide only we need to get Russia, China et al to agree.

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                      • Does anybody know why we switched battle groups?

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                        • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                          Yes I am aware and it needs the full council approval, that includes Denmark. By the way it is not all the Heads of State, our President does not sit on the council, nor does the Queen. Apart from that the point is that within Europe all others can decide only we need to get Russia, China et al to agree.
                          That’s the EU wording

                          Originally posted by Graylion View Post
                          Does anybody know why we switched battle groups?
                          Because a specific Battlegroup is formed for the 6 months it is on Standby

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                            Yes I am aware and it needs the full council approval, that includes Denmark. By the way it is not all the Heads of State, our President does not sit on the council, nor does the Queen. Apart from that the point is that within Europe all others can decide only we need to get Russia, China et al to agree.
                            In the UN Article 51 has been used unashamedly to chastise warring groups within UN nations, mainly to keep somebody in power, that cannot be dislodged politically. The veto is used by Security Council members to prevent negative action to their side . Since we were chair ( RYAN ) of UN Security Council at the outbreak of the preemptive action in Afghanistan surely, with that first hand experience, having them overseeing any action we wish to take in consort with the EU, is neither wise or needed but is a dilution of our sovereignty. Inversely, behind the posturing,our mandarins are aware of our military fragility which they oversee and are controlling and maybe they don't want blood on their hands.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                              That’s the EU wording
                              Nope.

                              ""The members of the European Council are the heads of state or government of the 28 EU member states, the European Council President and the President of the European Commission."

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                                In the UN Article 51 has been used unashamedly to chastise warring groups within UN nations, mainly to keep somebody in power, that cannot be dislodged politically. The veto is used by Security Council members to prevent negative action to their side . Since we were chair ( RYAN ) of UN Security Council at the outbreak of the preemptive action in Afghanistan surely, with that first hand experience, having them overseeing any action we wish to take in consort with the EU, is neither wise or needed but is a dilution of our sovereignty. Inversely, behind the posturing,our mandarins are aware of our military fragility which they oversee and are controlling and maybe they don't want blood on their hands.
                                Back to the ship of the moment. The RCN have embarked on a programme for 8 Arctic OPV at 105m X 19m on 6,600 Tonnes to include icebreaker ability, Flight deck, live aboard helo, vehicle deck, 20 tonne crane, container handling, 12 metre landing craft, 2 fast boats, folding stabilisers etc. All designed to work in the Canadian Arctic, with a crew of 58ish.

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