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  • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
    I don't think we should limit ships size based on the dimensions of a graving dock who's owners have no interest in maintaining it or the associated facilities.
    The geographical fact is we are an island that needs to attempt to be self sufficient . Strategically being dependent on elswhere in Europe eliminates certainty of services , as , and when required. DPA closed it's drydock to make way for cruise liners and then binned priority for liners but still got rid of the Dock. In WW11 ISL took over the Cork Dockyard and kept their ships operational throughout that conflict with that Sole amenity. Our Pols. are totally sea blind and Harbour Boards are weak on ship repair necessity. Government detachment from the needs of the Maritime sector is puzzling.

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    • Mod, thread split to politics since the posts are about corruption not ships.
      "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
      Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
      Illegitimi non carborundum

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      • Originally posted by Turkey View Post
        Mod, thread split to politics since the posts are about corruption not ships.
        Making a key point about selecting a large ship type for the Irish Naval Service . Wisdom requires that we can HOME port it and maintain it both afloat and in drydock. An EPV/MRV too big for facilities would be an embarrassment .

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        • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
          Making a key point about selecting a large ship type for the Irish Naval Service . Wisdom requires that we can HOME port it and maintain it both afloat and in drydock. An EPV/MRV too big for facilities would be an embarrassment .
          Could you elaborate on concrete reasons, rather than just referring to "wisdom"? What scenarios do you envision where this would be an issue? I'll add that a united Ireland might well happen soon and there is sufficiently sized drydock in Belfast.

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          • Originally posted by Graylion View Post
            Could you elaborate on concrete reasons, rather than just referring to "wisdom"? What scenarios do you envision where this would be an issue? I'll add that a united Ireland might well happen soon and there is sufficiently sized drydock in Belfast.
            "Soon" might be overstating things more than a small bit, and even then you get into how the skill base at H&W has eroded as well.

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            • Originally posted by Graylion View Post
              Could you elaborate on concrete reasons, rather than just referring to "wisdom"? What scenarios do you envision where this would be an issue? I'll add that a united Ireland might well happen soon and there is sufficiently sized drydock in Belfast.
              I could come up with plenty of scenarios to "not" have our ships drydocked in Belfast regardless of a united Ireland .
              Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

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              • Both true - France strikes me as more likely for the near future.

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                • Originally posted by Graylion View Post
                  Could you elaborate on concrete reasons, rather than just referring to "wisdom"? What scenarios do you envision where this would be an issue? I'll add that a united Ireland might well happen soon and there is sufficiently sized drydock in Belfast.
                  When HM government developed Haulbowline as a Naval Base in 1854 it also included a Dockyard and drydock capable of handling most large naval vessels up to Cruiser size. The Dock dimensions are 600 X 94 ft. and possibly the biggest drydock in Ireland outside of Belfast. The reasons for a naval Dock are those of definite planning and availability in emergencies. It would also obviate a distant tow in the event of a major failure.
                  Belfast is always a possibility but, historic problems, as in the case of ILT Granuaile , could arise again. Until we can be sure of an immediate repair facility we must live by dimensional constraints imposed by DSG's Cork Dockyard, or re-establish the existing Naval Dock.

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                  • Never mind drydocking (although it isn’t important) the physical size of the basin in Haulbowline limits the size of the MRV

                    No point building a ship that can’t dock at the country’s only naval base

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                    • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                      Never mind drydocking (although it isn’t important) the physical size of the basin in Haulbowline limits the size of the MRV

                      No point building a ship that can’t dock at the country’s only naval base
                      It can get through the 94 foot opening, in it's proposed size , and with bow and stern thrusters could dock itself without tugs.

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                      • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                        When HM government developed Haulbowline as a Naval Base in 1854 it also included a Dockyard and drydock capable of handling most large naval vessels up to Cruiser size. The Dock dimensions are 600 X 94 ft. and possibly the biggest drydock in Ireland outside of Belfast. The reasons for a naval Dock are those of definite planning and availability in emergencies. It would also obviate a distant tow in the event of a major failure.
                        Belfast is always a possibility but, historic problems, as in the case of ILT Granuaile , could arise again. Until we can be sure of an immediate repair facility we must live by dimensional constraints imposed by DSG's Cork Dockyard, or re-establish the existing Naval Dock.
                        Where is that dock? Is that the dock at the end of the basin?

                        In that case what are the maximum dimensions of the basin?

                        But Ellida is available in different sizes ...
                        Last edited by Graylion; 10 November 2019, 23:42.

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                        • Originally posted by Graylion View Post
                          Where is that dock? Is that the dock at the end of the basin?

                          In that case what are the maximum dimensions of the basin?

                          But Ellida is available in different sizes ...
                          Dock is at the southern end of the basin and is usable for a repair berth, afloat, by ships within a range of dock dimensions 181m X 28m. There is a proposal to roof it and fit it out as a covered repair/ painting facility with adjacent technical shops and stores, and fitted with shore power, FW, and FF etc.

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                          • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                            Dock is at the southern end of the basin and is usable for a repair berth, afloat, by ships within a range of dock dimensions 181m X 28m. There is a proposal to roof it and fit it out as a covered repair/ painting facility with adjacent technical shops and stores, and fitted with shore power, FW, and FF etc.
                            So the basin could take at least that size then?

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                            • As originally designed the basin itself could be dried out, and anything within sit on its limestone floor. The engineering required to do this is restore the pump house (filled with concrete I believe) and rebuild the caisson. This topic has been well discussed in other threads.
                              For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                              • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                                As originally designed the basin itself could be dried out, and anything within sit on its limestone floor. The engineering required to do this is restore the pump house (filled with concrete I believe) and rebuild the caisson. This topic has been well discussed in other threads.
                                Thanks, but not quite what I asked - what is the maximum that will fit in the basin?

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