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  1. #2701
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    The NS has detailed plans about what it wants.... I would say the issue is Government funding and approval.... and lack of personnel

  2. #2702
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    Past time we have such events like this, hopefully it will become a regular thing.
    I'm at the event and the only disappointing aspect is the almost complete absence of politicians. Paul Kehoe opened it yesterday and Ged Nash was a very informed contributor on the Air Defence panel - but I've seen nobody else. I assume Gerry Craughwell is around but I haven't seen him.

    It has been a very well run, very informative event but I fear it's a case of preaching to the converted.

    The most remarkable aspect is that it has been run entirely by volunteers. Gerry Waldron has done an amazing job pulling this together.
    “The nation that will insist on drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking done by cowards.”
    ― Thucydides

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  4. #2703
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    Does Gerry need to campaign to keep his seanad seat or was he one of the nominates?
    It does strike me as being a tad echo chamberish. Like here, we all have good ideas( though they are actual experts in the field) but without official engagement and acceptance of the problems, we will be back next year telling the same stories.
    One wonders if there would be more official government attendance on any other occasion, other than when all parties are trying to form a government.
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  6. #2704
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    Does Gerry need to campaign to keep his seanad seat or was he one of the nominates?
    It does strike me as being a tad echo chamberish. Like here, we all have good ideas( though they are actual experts in the field) but without official engagement and acceptance of the problems, we will be back next year telling the same stories.
    One wonders if there would be more official government attendance on any other occasion, other than when all parties are trying to form a government.
    True enough, though at least it's had some degree of coverage in the papers, rather than just being totally ignored.

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  8. #2705
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    RTE are ignoring it though.
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  9. #2706
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    RTE are ignoring it though.
    Course they are, I mean how low down the chain was the report on the Mali incident or did it even make the 6o clock yesterday?

  10. #2707
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    Course they are, I mean how low down the chain was the report on the Mali incident or did it even make the 6o clock yesterday?
    Never heard it on RTE. Three injured near GAO in Mali , while on patrol in a German made vehicle with Irish " Markings ", after an IED incident on 25th February some 2 days ago now. Looks like we have to borrow stuff.!!

  11. #2708
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    I believe the Irish element of the Mali operation (MINUSMA) is so small(14) it does not justify the logistics of us bringing our own vehicles, it's easier to use vehicles provided by the lead unit. In this case Germany.
    In East Timor we did the same with aussie vehicles.
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  13. #2709
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    I believe the Irish element of the Mali operation (MINUSMA) is so small(14) it does not justify the logistics of us bringing our own vehicles, it's easier to use vehicles provided by the lead unit. In this case Germany.
    In East Timor we did the same with aussie vehicles.
    Also given that it's the Rangers, I'm not sure we want to see how a F150 handles an IED explosion.

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  15. #2710
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    Never heard it on RTE. Three injured near GAO in Mali , while on patrol in a German made vehicle with Irish " Markings ", after an IED incident on 25th February some 2 days ago now. Looks like we have to borrow stuff.!!
    The ARW is a very small element of a larger German unit it wouldn’t make sense to bring their own vehicles, spares, mechanics etc

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  17. #2711
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    The COS as we know attended at a presentation given by the Norwegian's on their new Logs ship HMNoS MAUD. It is looking at the market and the built in capabilities for such ships. This is a Korean built ship and she sailed from there at the beginning of February and is currently in the Nordic area at 60deg N and about 5.25 deg.East.
    Hopefully we will build a bit closer to home and no further that the EU.

  18. #2712
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    The COS as we know attended at a presentation given by the Norwegian's on their new Logs ship HMNoS MAUD. It is looking at the market and the built in capabilities for such ships. This is a Korean built ship and she sailed from there at the beginning of February and is currently in the Nordic area at 60deg N and about 5.25 deg.East.
    Hopefully we will build a bit closer to home and no further that the EU.
    Can be seen either way, the Korean Yards are probably the cheapest Western Yards going at the moment and have provided the Norwegians, British and NZ navies with AOR's however I think each have had "issues" on delivery.

  19. #2713
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    Babcock were at the conference earlier this week showing tenders of their Arrowhead MRV proposal. Did anyone get a look?
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  20. #2714
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    Can be seen either way, the Korean Yards are probably the cheapest Western Yards going at the moment and have provided the Norwegians, British and NZ navies with AOR's however I think each have had "issues" on delivery.
    The RNZN AOR is not yet delivered and is nearing completion of its final acceptance trials and is expected home mid year with the RADM satisfied with progress. It is a Rolls Royce Enviroship design built at the Hyundai (HHI) superyard in Ulsan costing EUR285m where as the Tide Class and Maud are BMT Aegir 18R designs built at Daewoo (DSME) are cheaper ships costing around EUR165m. The RNZN seem happy with what they are getting and where they are getting it from Hyundai (a repeat AOR customer) in the capability and quality sense.

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  22. #2715
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    While we have all been distracted by some other issues it seems the VARD mob have been busy with several new designs:

    The VARD 7-312 is a 125m Logistic Supply vessel for projection and support of forces, amphibious operations and control, support of maritime special ops, and humanitarian assistance. It has amphibious/well deck capabilities and can accommodate up to 250 troops.
    https://vardmarine.com/gallery/vard-7-312/
    Not one for us as it seems to be aimed at Chile to replace their existing ship.


    The next interesting one is the VARD 7-078 is a Multi-Purpose Offshore Patrol Vessel with an operationally flexible platform that is capable of a full range of naval missions. The flexible mission bay can accommodate up to three 12m boats and up to four standard ISO containers.
    https://vardmarine.com/gallery/vard-7-078/
    Not sure at whom it is aimed; could be the Philippines who are running a selection for this size at the moment although they seem to favor a design from Austal. Maybe it could be a replacement for the CPVs as the 4 TEU positions would allow to carry a modular MCM kit with an 11m ASV. As for the heli deck that would be useful but the hanger shown in the video is too small for anything other than a UAV.

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  24. #2716
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    [QUOTE=EUFighter;474212]While we have all been distracted by some other issues it seems the VARD mob have been busy with several new designs:

    The VARD 7-312 is a 125m Logistic Supply vessel for projection and support of forces, amphibious operations and control, support of maritime special ops, and humanitarian assistance. It has amphibious/well deck capabilities and can accommodate up to 250 troops.
    https://vardmarine.com/gallery/vard-7-312/
    Not one for us as it seems to be aimed at Chile to replace their existing ship.


    Not to nit pick too much, I think the VARD-310 is ear marked for Chile, while the VARD- 312 is matching our length at 125m and the beam of 22.00m just fits into the Cork Dry dock by 0.3m. I'd say there showing their underwear to us.!!

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  26. #2717
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    Not to nit pick too much, I think the VARD-310 is ear marked for Chile, while the VARD- 312 is matching our length at 125m and the beam of 22.00m just fits into the Cork Dry dock by 0.3m. I'd say there showing their underwear to us.!!
    Why would we need an Ice strengthened hull? Or pay for a design with that?

  27. #2718
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    Why would we need an Ice strengthened hull? Or pay for a design with that?
    Don't have to add ice strengthening unless you want a future capability. Once a hull is sorted the rest is specification. Being able to operate in Arctic regions in summer doesn't mean the vessel is over strengthened. Llyods standard rules operate at a higher strength requirement than thin skinned combat vessels, so for world voyaging they will add certain contingencies. The States shipping company vessels, in their day, travelled to PORT CHURCHILL in Hudson Bay and Montreal in winter, all passing through Bergy Bits seaways.

  28. #2719
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    As a contingency, having a certain level of ice strengthening would be no disadvantage. Given this vessel is designed for Humanitarian aid, we cannot assume that we would only be needed to assist in warmer waters, as is currently the case. What if, for example our neighbours to the north had another volcano inspired situation in the wrong time of the year? Being without this strengthening can limit our movements in the western atlantic to a line quite far south, at certain times of the year.
    Still a fine vessel with interesting capabilities.
    The 312 does however specify Antarctic waters. Maybe South Africa has a similar requirement?
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  29. #2720
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    The 312 does however specify Antarctic waters. Maybe South Africa has a similar requirement?
    In the brochure she is flying the Chilean flag.

  30. #2721
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    In the brochure she is flying the Chilean flag.
    Artistic license or a commercial prompt. We have seen some with an Agusta - 139 on board. Our OPV's appear in their brochures.

  31. #2722
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    I've followed the EPV/MRV vessel thread with interest since the early 2000's when someone in IMO tried to bait the media that the NS were looking to buy an Absalon class...

    A number of interesting vessels have been proposed in these pages, and the NS is quoted as knowing what specs it would like to see. However, does anyone know whether their requirements point more towards patrol/security or logistic functions? Knowing which of those is the primary role will dictate the type of vessel acquired. So from a souped down Type 31e in primarily patrol/security scenario, to one of the Vard designs shown above in a logistic role. Just my 2 cents from someone who knows very little about naval matters.

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  33. #2723
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    What the NS wants it may not get but it is likely to be substantial more than the ability to carry 4 TEUs

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  35. #2724
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    What the NS wants it may not get but it is likely to be substantial more than the ability to carry 4 TEUs
    Yes, you are right. What is needed is implied in the vessel's designation as a Multi role vessel. Ideally it should be able to function as tasked , in Command functions , HADR, Fleet support/replenishment, acute hospital/aid functions, surveillance/interdiction roles, transport/ insertion roles, remote unit launch and recovery both aerial and sub-sea, sufficient bollard pull to aid most vessels etc. etc.

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