Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

EPV for naval service

Collapse
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
    Is that per year or just a once off lump sum?
    Just €12 million, not sure if its a lump sum or spread out over the six years.

    Comment


    • Not much considering they gave us half the cost of Roisin (not sure about Niamh)

      Comment


      • new ships

        Originally posted by DeV View Post
        Not much considering they gave us half the cost of Roisin (not sure about Niamh)
        Irrespective of who pays for what we need to ensure that the ship is cleared, at design stage, to be fit for all the purposes intended. Some naval vessels are designated for Military Operations Only Not War. Some are more hardened such as Holland Class and can take a more vigorous defensive action. Looking at a recent head on shot of a p60 vessel I noted all the bridge windows are obscured by equipment consoles which means that from aft of the consoles there is no near water view for the bridge watchkeepers. It must make close quarters maneuvering a bit fraught and detract from situational awareness. Visual aspects of navigation must always remain paramount as all ship surface movements are to the choice of those in control and can lead to collision through been unaware of closer targets, especially at night.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
          Irrespective of who pays for what we need to ensure that the ship is cleared, at design stage, to be fit for all the purposes intended. Some naval vessels are designated for Military Operations Only Not War. Some are more hardened such as Holland Class and can take a more vigorous defensive action. Looking at a recent head on shot of a p60 vessel I noted all the bridge windows are obscured by equipment consoles which means that from aft of the consoles there is no near water view for the bridge watchkeepers. It must make close quarters maneuvering a bit fraught and detract from situational awareness. Visual aspects of navigation must always remain paramount as all ship surface movements are to the choice of those in control and can lead to collision through been unaware of closer targets, especially at night.
          Ship is conned by the OOW usually from the centre bridge window for any coastal/berthing/anchoring ops. This combined with a lookout again at the bridge windows ensures safe pilotage and navigation of the the P60. Not to mention 2 x navigation radars. The information is fed from the wheel, engines, comms to the OOW with the OC supervising from his chair if necessary.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
            Irrespective of who pays for what we need to ensure that the ship is cleared, at design stage, to be fit for all the purposes intended. Some naval vessels are designated for Military Operations Only Not War. Some are more hardened such as Holland Class and can take a more vigorous defensive action.
            Which of course means we have to decide (a) what we want the MRV to do (b) what level of military ops we want (and can afford)



            Looking at a recent head on shot of a p60 vessel I noted all the bridge windows are obscured by equipment consoles which means that from aft of the consoles there is no near water view for the bridge watchkeepers. It must make close quarters maneuvering a bit fraught and detract from situational awareness. Visual aspects of navigation must always remain paramount as all ship surface movements are to the choice of those in control and can lead to collision through been unaware of closer targets, especially at night.
            From what I remember of being on Beckett, the consoles don't really block the view

            Comment


            • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
              Irrespective of who pays for what we need to ensure that the ship is cleared, at design stage, to be fit for all the purposes intended. Some naval vessels are designated for Military Operations Only Not War. Some are more hardened such as Holland Class and can take a more vigorous defensive action. Looking at a recent head on shot of a p60 vessel I noted all the bridge windows are obscured by equipment consoles which means that from aft of the consoles there is no near water view for the bridge watchkeepers. It must make close quarters maneuvering a bit fraught and detract from situational awareness. Visual aspects of navigation must always remain paramount as all ship surface movements are to the choice of those in control and can lead to collision through been unaware of closer targets, especially at night.
              SDC13846
              View of Bridge wing from above.
              SDC13832
              The Gentleman is standing at the centre bridge window. You'll note there is a gap behind him where there are no consoles. Should the OC chose to remain in his seat, he has an unobscured view forward at all times.
              SDC13834
              The Location of the OCs seat, showing the overlooking view it offers.
              I can only recommend you take the time to visit one of the vessels for yourself someday. Don't be afraid to tell them your background and the crew will be more than happy to show you around. Some exers even partake in an annual "trip on a ship" though I appreciate this is not to everyones taste. The situational awareness the combination of consoles and visibility provides is excellent. Granted P31 had a better view aft from the bridge, but she was a notable exception in service.
              It is still light years ahead of operating with radar at night in the 70s and 80s, with your ARPA either behind a curtain or under a cone.
              For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
                The Location of the OCs seat, showing the overlooking view it offers.
                I can only recommend you take the time to visit one of the vessels for yourself someday. Don't be afraid to tell them your background and the crew will be more than happy to show you around. Some exers even partake in an annual "trip on a ship" though I appreciate this is not to everyones taste. The situational awareness the combination of consoles and visibility provides is excellent. Granted P31 had a better view aft from the bridge, but she was a notable exception in service.
                It is still light years ahead of operating with radar at night in the 70s and 80s, with your ARPA either behind a curtain or under a cone.
                Despite having toured the ship, I'm of the opinion that near water views, other than forward of the consoles is not available. OOW is compromised if he needs to maneuver the ship without a second pair of hands and EYES.

                Comment


                • Well he is never going to be alone on the bridge in any situation. Would be different in a merchant vessel of course. The vessel can be conned from either bridge wing or the normal position.
                  The layout in my opinion is a vast improvement on days of old. Helm and engine control are out of the line of sight of the OOW or the OC. Meantime within his peripheral are MFDs showing anything from engine management to radar, ECDIS, AIS and if necessary EOD. The area in front of these consoles allows him the advantage of no light pollution from consoles should he need to focus on distant lights etc. Last skipper I had used to throw a teatowel over the Radar screen at night to save his night vision.
                  Many of the displays are also available to the skipper in his stateroom, via his PC.

                  You should really try and get a jolly on her.
                  For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                  Comment


                  • What about external cameras aft facing and forward facing starboard and port? would they not be a useful secondary input for narrow nav?
                    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
                    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by morpheus View Post
                      What about external cameras aft facing and forward facing starboard and port? would they not be a useful secondary input for narrow nav?
                      If a bridge MFD could take a feed from an optronic sight (FCS) it might help, otherwise camera's are helpful to cover blind spots in after sectors.

                      Comment


                      • Most vessels (including NS vessels AFAIK) now have CCTV

                        Comment


                        • Yes, CCTV covers both RIB launch areas as well as aft, and the EOD provides 360 day and night optics if required. (except for a slight blind spot directly behind, obscured by the ships mast and funnel of all things. Often wonder why this piece of kit is not mounted at or near the masts highest point?)
                          Didn't Eithne have FCS on both bridge wings?
                          For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
                            Yes, CCTV covers both RIB launch areas as well as aft, and the EOD provides 360 day and night optics if required. (except for a slight blind spot directly behind, obscured by the ships mast and funnel of all things. Often wonder why this piece of kit is not mounted at or near the masts highest point?)
                            Didn't Eithne have FCS on both bridge wings?
                            Correct, can't remember exactly what they were called captain's sights or something but allowed the bridge to designate a target for the 57mm

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
                              Yes, CCTV covers both RIB launch areas as well as aft, and the EOD provides 360 day and night optics if required. (except for a slight blind spot directly behind, obscured by the ships mast and funnel of all things. Often wonder why this piece of kit is not mounted at or near the masts highest point?)
                              Didn't Eithne have FCS on both bridge wings?
                              I'm guessing the EO turret isn't mounted on the mast because of the weight of it and the accompanying stabilization system.

                              IMO it's a fairly hefty blind spot:



                              I know the NS aren't fools - there's an ideal spot for another EO turret beside the satellite domes to cover that area - I'd love any vessel doing anything beyond a fishery patrol in Irish waters to have the second system, but €€€€ etc...

                              I imagine we'll see the Rheinmetalls replaced with RWS and their own EO system in the next 10-15 years and that will cover all angles.
                              Last edited by pym; 23 August 2017, 23:19.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                                Correct, can't remember exactly what they were called captain's sights or something but allowed the bridge to designate a target for the 57mm
                                TDS, Target Designation Sights, they fed into the Signaal (now Thales) LIOD FCS

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X