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  • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
    Ships with shaft generators run under a Power Take Off principle, can have that arrangement reversed to a Power Take In configuration to drive both shafts with electrical power fed back through a SWX Board. The Shaft Generators become electrical motors. The speed would be less but fine for getting home.
    I am not sure we are talking about the same thing here. I am talking about diesels coupled to electric motors / pods for full power, so that the prime mover can be dedicated to providing on shore power in desaster areas. USS Lexington (CV-2) acted as the powerplant for Tacoma, Washington in 1929/30 when its hydro-electric system failed due to a drought.

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    • Ships in general use a lot of electrical power for combat systems and propulsion. If a ship can take Shore Power then it can deliver power to the capacity of it's generation system. Obviously an all electric ship with gas Turbine or better still Nuclear generation could provide anything from 25mw in a SNN to 50mw or more for a large surface ship. Our tiddlers might produce close to 2 mw depending on size of generators. A Liberty ship with an installed Nuclear plant powered Panama for many years. we could possibly power each other or maybe a Cobh sized town. There would be some redesigning required to deliver power of a compatible nature but it has been done worldwide .

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      • That's my point. 2MW, which i think is actually a high estimate, compared to nearly 11 MW, which is the main propulsion

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        • Does anybody know how many lane metres we would need for a mech. company? And how many berths?

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          • P63 has two shafts with two engines at 5000mw each, total 10000mw. Her generators are close to 500kva and she has 3+1.

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            • There are 500 lane metres on HMS Albion to cater for 400 troops and associated vehicles. A mech company maybe around 140 Lane Metres with austere berthage and hygiene facilities for 120 , plus necessary landing facilities.

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              • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                P63 has two shafts with two engines at 5000mw each, total 10000mw. Her generators are close to 500kva and she has 3+1.
                I believe you mean kW ...

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                • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                  There are 500 lane metres on HMS Albion to cater for 400 troops and associated vehicles. A mech company maybe around 140 Lane Metres with austere berthage and hygiene facilities for 120 , plus necessary landing facilities.
                  I like the idea of a JSS like the Canadian one, just not based on the incredibly expensive Berlin class, but the BMT design. The Canadian version manages to add that carrying facility for tome troops to the existing design

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                  • Originally posted by Graylion View Post
                    Does anybody know how many lane metres we would need for a mech. company? And how many berths?
                    In the region of 130 lane metres (that's only literally a Mech Inf Coy (no attachments, no stores, no tents, etc etc) plus approx 130 personnel.

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                    • Originally posted by Graylion View Post
                      Does anybody know how many lane metres we would need for a mech. company? And how many berths?
                      Have a read through this thread, it has been well covered in the past. Even the requirement regarding potential cargo.
                      For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                      • Originally posted by Graylion View Post
                        I believe you mean kW ...
                        Yes. I should have stated 5KVA or 500KW.

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                        • Within the 2018 Budget statement on Defence it mentions replacements for Cessna and Casa. There are also references to Mowag units and a confirmation of providing an MRV for the Naval Service. If a ship has up to 130 lane metres for military vehicles it can certainly carry , over a short term, the associated personnel, equipment and stores. The difficulty is the mode of discharge which will have to be soft to a quay wall or else a completely different vessel with dock or gantries for LCPV's would be required. In passing HMS Clyde and HMS Mersey are for sale and the former was stated to be able to ferry up to 100+ personnel (Marines)

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                          • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                            Within the 2018 Budget statement on Defence it mentions replacements for Cessna and Casa. There are also references to Mowag units and a confirmation of providing an MRV for the Naval Service. If a ship has up to 130 lane metres for military vehicles it can certainly carry , over a short term, the associated personnel, equipment and stores. The difficulty is the mode of discharge which will have to be soft to a quay wall or else a completely different vessel with dock or gantries for LCPV's would be required. In passing HMS Clyde and HMS Mersey are for sale and the former was stated to be able to ferry up to 100+ personnel (Marines)
                            Must have, should have, could have

                            To deliver a worthwhile capability (IMHO) we need 130 lane metres and 20 TEUs, max 50 additional berths (vehicle crews and a local security force), at the very least armament in line with current OPVs, helicopter pad, integral crane and docking systems.

                            Nice to have/should have would be capability to take a Bn minus (including the troops) and the capability to protect them.

                            It isn't an ideal world and something like Absalon would cost all the (increased) capital budget for everything across the DF for 4 years, for something that will rarely be used. Therefore we need to be realistic.

                            We could however end up with a OPV plus with space for 10 TEUs. I think we both know the NS (and probably the DF) want the full bells and whistles but they can only get what they have the money for.

                            The RN OPVs haven't been offered for sale yet.

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                            • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                              ...Therefore we need to be realistic.

                              We could however end up with a OPV plus with space for 10 TEUs. I think we both know the NS (and probably the DF) want the full bells and whistles but they can only get what they have the money for...
                              10 TEU's, to use your example, simply aren't worth the compromise to the ship their stowage would require - at what point should the NS staff just say 'actually, don't bother with the Happy Shopper sealift capability, just give us another OPV'?

                              if you want Logs capability you need a Logs ship - either something akin to a scaled down Bay Class or an AOR - and accept that its ability to chase fishing boats is going to be a bit compromised, if you want a patrol ship you buy a patrol ship and accept that if you want stuff moved you'll have to ask someone else.

                              i still take the view than an AOR is the answer - its far easier politically than anything fighty or landy, you get a lot more for your money, and you'll have an asset that is actually in demand and whose use will earn browny points, which, to be frank, a shit frigate won't.

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                              • Originally posted by ropebag View Post
                                10 TEU's, to use your example, simply aren't worth the compromise to the ship their stowage would require - at what point should the NS staff just say 'actually, don't bother with the Happy Shopper sealift capability, just give us another OPV'?

                                if you want Logs capability you need a Logs ship - either something akin to a scaled down Bay Class or an AOR - and accept that its ability to chase fishing boats is going to be a bit compromised, if you want a patrol ship you buy a patrol ship and accept that if you want stuff moved you'll have to ask someone else.

                                i still take the view than an AOR is the answer - its far easier politically than anything fighty or landy, you get a lot more for your money, and you'll have an asset that is actually in demand and whose use will earn browny points, which, to be frank, a shit frigate won't.
                                Got to agree here, some sort of neither fish nor fowl ship that can't carry enough for credible joint operations (and the needed defence systems for such a hull) , but's still too much for Patrol is questionable to me in terms of value for money, particularly when we are talking about just 1 hull...

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