EPV for naval service

[Laners]

We had a C P O / Writer on board from N H Q in Dublin for the U S trip , his job on board was to be a personal steward/ breakfast cook for the Flag Officer. Or in other words a passanger

[ELVIS]

Emers engines ...pielsticks are the same as Aislings and Aoifes so spares shouldn't be a problem. Deirdre had a different fit...Polar Marine deisels and Eithnes are Rustons.

Spares aren't a problem but replacing the entire engines is a problem.

[moggy]

enought said??

[Laners]

laners when are you writing the book

Would love to write a book , but it would be nothing like the one by Tom MacGinty . Lots of good personal stories with some sort of timeline in relation to various ships and establishments and lots of good SCA i,e scandal and what realy happened at such and such a time. Of course I still have one good friend of mine still in the service and his name would pop up at numerious times in a book so I would have to be very diplomatic or else get some sort of imuniety from pressecution , or we could pool all the stories and have Roddy Doyle put it together . It could be a series of books , just think of the titles of the books , The Base , The Pubs of Cobh , The Trip To the Med , etc etc It would be a cross between Roddy Doyle,s Barrytown Trilogy and Patrick O,Brien,s Master and Commander and all his his other books in that series .

[Laners]

Comissioners for Irish light have a pretty good web site with links to articles in their magazine , Beam , some great stories for anyone into nautical stuff, one article in particular about a 27 day trip to Rockall by Grannualie is ? well read the article .

[Goldie fish]

This ship is what I am considering would fit the bill. German Elbe class tender..

[Laners]

Intresting colour scheme, looks like an Irish flag

[Goldie fish]

Intresting colour scheme, looks like an Irish flag

Where ?

[Laners]

The UK MOD recently took delivery of a number of RO-RO ships,or sort of, For Strategic Sealift.
Originally the Royal Fleet Auxiliary operated the Ro Ro Vessel Sea Crusader,but this was returned to her Parent Company after 7 Yeasr service.
The Current Arrangement allows A.W.S.R. Shipping Ltd (AWSR) to supply the Ministry of Defence (MoD) with a multi-million world-wide strategic transport service through a new Private Finance Initiative (PFI). The sealift service contract will be worth approximately £950 million, depending upon the amount of operational and private usage of the ships, and will run until December 2024,providing ships and crews,which can be used for commercial trading when not required by the MOD.
The company was established with the express purpose of bidding for the £950 million contract to construct and own six 20,000-tonne ro-ro vessels for service with the UK's Ministry of Defence (MoD).



Hurst Point

Interesting colour scheme , looks like an Irish flag

[Tank]

Guys, I can't believe this phantasy discussion has gone on for so long.

"Tactical advance to base camp must be assumed"??? The DF doing USMC style landings on a beach somewhere?? Dream on! We don't have the budget for stuff like that. We're a small nation and this kind of discussion is really just about dreaming of being like the "big boys" in NATO. We need to concentrate on being able to do what we can afford to contribute (A Battle Group or an Infantry Brigade) properly, not diversify into absurdities like this.

When the next NS vessel gets decommissioned I'd say the NS will be trying to get by without her. After all, with modern technology you can do more with less. And why would we need a ship with capabilities like that? We can hire transport space with a commercial carrier or some other country for the seldom times it's needed to transport bigger volumes of equipment. "The [need] for C3 capabilities on arrival is now obvious"??? No it's not! Since Ireland does not have the strength to go it alone on a mission there will always be other, bigger nations around on whose C3 capabilities we can piggyback, thereby saving money that's badly needed elsewhere.

What's being assumed here is that Ireland should have the capability to do a mission somewhere totally unsupported by others. That's unrealistic! Europe is creating the Battle Groups to move closer together and make best use of limited military capacities. We can team up with others if we need it. Let's stop wasting time dreaming about being in the "big boys club" and get on with the real core work!

[Goldie fish]

Guys, I can't believe this phantasy discussion has gone on for so long.

Its spelt fantasy

"Tactical advance to base camp must be assumed"??? The DF doing USMC style landings on a beach somewhere?? Dream on! We don't have the budget for stuff like that. We're a small nation and this kind of discussion is really just about dreaming of being like the "big boys" in NATO. We need to concentrate on being able to do what we can afford to contribute (A Battle Group or an Infantry Brigade) properly, not diversify into absurdities like this.

News for you. Its already been done. Liberia. L.E.Roisin.

When the next NS vessel gets decommissioned I'd say the NS will be trying to get by without her. After all, with modern technology you can do more with less.

You are unaware of the level of commitment the NS already. Can the gardai Patrol the entire Island of Ireland with 1 patrol car? In any case the White paper gave a commitment to an 8 ship fleet,and the quay space has already been earmarked in Haulbowline.

And why would we need a ship with capabilities like that? We can hire transport space with a commercial carrier or some other country for the seldom times it's needed to transport bigger volumes of equipment.

Again the need has been there in the past.

"The [need] for C3 capabilities on arrival is now obvious"??? No it's not! Since Ireland does not have the strength to go it alone on a mission there will always be other, bigger nations around on whose C3 capabilities we can piggyback, thereby saving money that's badly needed elsewhere.

Those other bigger nations are not always about. This has been learnt the hard way.Remember we are not a part of any military alliance. We cannot assume we would not be the main participant.

What's being assumed here is that Ireland should have the capability to do a mission somewhere totally unsupported by others. That's unrealistic! Europe is creating the Battle Groups to move closer together and make best use of limited military capacities. We can team up with others if we need it. Let's stop wasting time dreaming about being in the "big boys club" and get on with the real core work!

The only person assuming that is you. I think if you reread the entire thread,instead of the initial post,you'll find the requests a bit more reasonable than you assumption that we are looking for USMC style assault capability. Well the majority of requests at least.

[Goldie fish]

OK,the rumour persists.

About 4000 tonnes,Blue/green role.
Word is the finer details are being ironed out. As always budget is the only maybe,but in the past,there has never been a problem,ask,and you shall recieve.

I found this on the Blohm and Voss website....

Meko 200 MRV


Main characteristics ship platform:
Length, overall 121.00 m
Length, DWL 109.00 m
Beam 17.00 m
Draught 4.40 m
Displacement 3,900 t
Range 8,000 nm
Endurance 30 days

Propulsion:
2 high-speed diesel engines 5,200 kW each
2 shafts fitted with controllable pitch propellers
Max. speed > 22 kn

Crew:
Total 150 + 10

Helicopter:
optional


http://212.72.173.53/en/page.php?page_id=PG-215

[Old Redeye]

Now is definetely the time! Sell Eithne ASAP on this rumored trip to South America and order the new Joint Support Ship for soonest delivery. Also, get rid of P21, 22 & 23 and replace with one or two more Le Roisin's or, MEKO 100's in one contract with a B&V MEKO 200 Joint Support Ship. The MEKO 200 would do fine with an appropriate long-haul satellite C2 suite and a helo pad + fuel for AB-139's on the fantail - understanding there is no hanger, hence no on board basing other than alongside or at anchor when deployed in a Liberia-type situation - that's fine to satisfy Helo requirments for medevac, force C2, SF, utility ops, etc.

My principal concern with the MEKO 200 is diminutive size and the open deck for transit stowage - sea air and water can be very damaging to embarked vehicles and electronics, not to mention AB-139's stowed on deck, even shrink-wrapped. Would prefer to see a Danish Absalon - less heavilly armed perhaps - would provide a truly multi-role flexible capability with a substantial Ro-Ro vehicle deck, two LCP landing craft, additional berthing and a helo hanger. But, at 6000+ tons and a complement of 100, Absalon is likely a Joint Support Ship too far. The MEKO 200 is a superb solution at 4000 tons. Keeping my fingers crossed!

[yooklid]

Now is definetely the time! Sell Eithne ASAP on this rumored trip to South America and order the new Joint Support Ship for soonest delivery. Also, get rid of P21, 22 & 23 and replace with one or two more Le Roisin's or, MEKO 100's in one contract with a B&V MEKO 200 Joint Support Ship. The MEKO 200 would do fine with an appropriate long-haul satellite C2 suite and a helo pad + fuel for AB-139's on the fantail - understanding there is no hanger, hence no on board basing other than alongside or at anchor when deployed in a Liberia-type situation - that's fine to satisfy Helo requirments for medevac, force C2, SF, utility ops, etc.

And how much would all this cost? I know that the money is there in the kitty in Ireland (Having been there last week, I could smell and see all the wealth...) but the will is not, and it dissapates rapidly when confronted with a high cost...

If they are going to replace the P21 class with P51 class, they need to do it on a one for one basis. No more magical Helicopter acts please!

[Old Redeye]

Here's another option, the Tenix MRV selected by the RNZN, based on an Irish Sea ferry, being built in Holland - Ireland could build & outfit the design in Europe. Another heavyweight at around 8000 tons, but with many capabilities and possibly less expensive than an Absalon, but still les attractive than a MEKO 200.

http://www.tenix.com/PDFLibrary/239.pdf

[Old Redeye]

Views of the RNZN MRV building in teh Netherlands:

[ias]

Absalon was quoted in Jane's at under €100 million each.

IAS

[mutter nutter]

Absalon was quoted in Jane's at under €100 million each.

IAS

seem's pretty reasonable, what did the 6 new heli's come to, 50 milllion?

[Old Redeye]

That seems an unbelievably low price considering a new C-130J-30 runs about $US60-65.

[Stoker]

Based on what Irish sea ferry built in Holland?
The helicopter transported on deck doesn't seem a good idea, but tracked and wheeled vehicles would have no problem, go down to the Ferry port any evening and see how many trucks and even new cars come in on the open decks.

[Goldie fish]

Shipbuilding is experiencing a relative boom in asia at the moment. Consequently,european builders are subcontracting construction to cheaper dockyards in eastern europe to remain competitive.

[Goldie fish]

Based on what Irish sea ferry built in Holland?
The helicopter transported on deck doesn't seem a good idea, but tracked and wheeled vehicles would have no problem, go down to the Ferry port any evening and see how many trucks and even new cars come in on the open decks.

Most vessels of this type do not transport helis on deck,rather the deck is used as a staging point or fuelling point for Helis engaged in whatever operation is being undertaken,such as ferrying stores/casualtied or troops. Its a lot like the truck ferries you see on the UK-Hook of Holland(Hoek Van Holland) run.

http://www.shipspotting.com/uploads/photos/86483.jpg

[Old Redeye]

See for details on the Irish Sea ferry origins of teh RNZN MRV:

http://www.tenix.com/PDFLibrary/239.pdf

[Old Redeye]

Stoker,

A voyage of several hours in the vehicle deck of a ferry does not exposure vehicles and equipement to the elements to the same degree as a voyage of a week to ten days in the open Atlantic on the low, open rear deck of a MEKO 200 MRV. That's why an enclosed Ro/Ro vehicle deck such as that found on the Absalon is preferable. Another problem is unloading at the destination - the MEKO 200 design needs a vehicle ramp rather than just the crane - unloading via a single crane would be incredibly time consuming and carry considerable risks of damage or worse.

[Goldie fish]

Storing of vehicles on deck has already been done with no difficulty by the Irish Naval service for many years on voyages to Lebanon and Liberia,and others. It is efficient use of space that otherwise would be idle. Eithnes Helipad currently has hardpoints for 20' TEU,as well as tie down points for Vehicles.
In practice,you make best use of the space thats available to you. If vehicles are to be exposed to the elements,then a certain level of preparation is carried out beforehand. The North sea can be just as harsh as the atlantic at certain times of the year...

Great link from tenix by the way.