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  • Originally posted by sofa View Post
    Would it be possible to put a team with RBS70 and Javelin on board in the Med' at least.

    Remember the Australian navy strapping on RBS70s to there ships during the 1st Gulf war
    Would this not be a waste without the necessary air defence radar to detect the threat that the RBS70 is suppose to deal with?

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    • Originally posted by ias View Post
      Would this not be a waste without the necessary air defence radar to detect the threat that the RBS70 is suppose to deal with?
      Yep.

      I'm a broken record on this: Mil std datalinks, air search radar and countermeasures are baseline for safety. Doesn't make it a frigate or corvette.

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      • Originally posted by ias View Post
        Would this not be a waste without the necessary air defence radar to detect the threat that the RBS70 is suppose to deal with?
        Eithne had/has one. P60 class does not have them but they can be retrofitted if necessary.
        For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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        • Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
          Eithne had/has one. P60 class does not have them but they can be retrofitted if necessary.
          Given the effective range of the RBS70, cueing with a staring IR array is probably more effective than with a radar. More difficult is ensuring that the information from whatever sensor is used gets to the missile team in a timely manner and the ship is aligned to allow engagement of the threat. Pym's right about the countermeasures part, they can be easily automated and can generate an effective soft kill regardless of the approach angle of the threat, especially given that missiles (against which the RBS70 is almost useless) rather than aircraft seem to be the perceived threat.

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          • Originally posted by Medsailor View Post
            Given the effective range of the RBS70, cueing with a staring IR array is probably more effective than with a radar. More difficult is ensuring that the information from whatever sensor is used gets to the missile team in a timely manner and the ship is aligned to allow engagement of the threat. Pym's right about the countermeasures part, they can be easily automated and can generate an effective soft kill regardless of the approach angle of the threat, especially given that missiles (against which the RBS70 is almost useless) rather than aircraft seem to be the perceived threat.
            The more reaction time you can give the better.

            You also need a man in the loop. Automatisation has its limits/problems.

            The Arty have a box that is deployed with the RBS70, which uses Giraffe info to tell the SAM commander the direction, range and altitude of the target.

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            • Too small?

              Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
              I would be highly doubtful that any of our hulls could take such upgrades of hardware/support systems and the additional manpower. Trying to make OPV's into Corvette's/Light Frigates isn't going to work, if there's political will for combat deployments buy a Warship, rather than trying to upgrade the OPV's.
              Like putting systems on top of buildings, trucks, you can put the right equipment on any ship once you design in the required systems and power. Take a look at the US Ambassador 111 ( 600 tonne FAC ) it bristles with everything from 76mm, 30mm, Harpoon, to CIWS Phalanx. With the right crew mix, and integrated systems crew sizes can be quite adaptable, controlling 708 migrants is an example. The new RN 90m OPV's are fielding 34 with a top up capability of 60. When building any ship for Naval use capability must be a factor that after all dictates it's operational uses.

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              • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                The more reaction time you can give the better.

                You also need a man in the loop. Automatisation has its limits/problems.

                The Arty have a box that is deployed with the RBS70, which uses Giraffe info to tell the SAM commander the direction, range and altitude of the target.
                Agreed, the only difference being that on land they'll set up with a clear field of fire 360 degrees around. On a ship, you may have to turn the whole vessel to bring the target into the effective arc of fire. With a missile taking maybe 10-15 seconds to come in from 5000 metres, that is going to take up alot of your available time. Soft-kill options have the advantage of 360 degree coverage as soon as deployed.

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                • Perhaps the rather obvious answer is to have enough CIWS on the ship to handle a 360 threat, and to have both Hard and soft kill defensive systems.

                  Expensive on the sheet of paper, but compared to a 2,000 ton ship with 80+ crew burning brightly and then sinking quickly it's children's pocket money...

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                  • Originally posted by ropebag View Post
                    Perhaps the rather obvious answer is to have enough CIWS on the ship to handle a 360 threat, and to have both Hard and soft kill defensive systems.

                    Expensive on the sheet of paper, but compared to a 2,000 ton ship with 80+ crew burning brightly and then sinking quickly it's children's pocket money...
                    The voice of reason! (and lotsa money!)

                    Wishing all a peaceful Christmas and exciting 2017.

                    Medsailor

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                    • EPV or MRV

                      Originally posted by Medsailor View Post
                      The voice of reason! (and lotsa money!)

                      Wishing all a peaceful Christmas and exciting 2017.

                      Medsailor
                      And the same to All our Seafaring Friends in Malta. Conflicts have taught us that there is No advantage in trying to overpower an enemy by standing eyeball to eyeball and slugging it out. Modern technology requires us to conduct warfare at a distance using smart munitions and at least some passive target acquisition to send your homing weapons on their way. Costs are always relative to the wanted outcome. Our Navy had it all post WW11 but allowed a "ships of any type" policy fragment both our capability and our training structures.

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                      • Does our "neutral/nonaligned" status preclude/restrict our ability to buy the various systems touted here?

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                        • Originally posted by danno View Post
                          Does our "neutral/nonaligned" status preclude/restrict our ability to buy the various systems touted here?
                          Why would it?

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                          • Originally posted by danno View Post
                            Does our "neutral/nonaligned" status preclude/restrict our ability to buy the various systems touted here?
                            Sweden, which is properly neutral, has Gripen fighters, stealthy missile firing Corvettes and submarines, Switzerland which is also properly neutral has Gripen fighters, Leopard 2 tanks and 155mm SPG's, and India which is non-alligned, has aircraft carriers and nukes.

                            What possible rules could apply to Ireland that don't apply to Sweden, Switzerland or India?

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                            • Easy; the Swedish & Indians are players in the arms industry, the Swiss finance/own a fair bit of it.

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                              • Originally posted by danno View Post
                                Easy; the Swedish & Indians are players in the arms industry, the Swiss finance/own a fair bit of it.
                                Go easy on the mulled wine.

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