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  • Originally posted by danno View Post
    Easy; the Swedish & Indians are players in the arms industry, the Swiss finance/own a fair bit of it.
    And we are key players in the drinks industry but getting drunk and singing sad songs about what the bad colonist did to us don't work, we tried it.

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    • The countries you mention are reacting to historic route threats in the case of Sweden and an Area power struggle in the case of India, some Historic with Pakistan, and the developing scene in the Far East. The Swiss were always independently militarily strong even to the point they also had a merchant service to underpin that independence. We also are in the arms business such as supplying components for electronic systems used aboard ships and also hardware development by principals such as Timoney. In our own case we have no official deep sea Merchant service or cutting edge military force. We need a Defence Committee to set out a way forward to restore a creditable response based on modern warfare.

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      • A member of another forum has designed an app for designing your own "Fantasy Fleet" based on the River/Type31 for the British Navy.....Hope it works for you . have fun and Happy New Year.

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        • Huh, so installing a Phalanx CIWS and a EW/Countermeasures suite is cheaper than designing a hull to standard NATO damage control specifications.

          Captas-1 is cheap and containerised, but making the necessary acoustic adjustments e.g. engine mounts, so that your SONAR isn't deaf is actually the expensive part.

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          • Originally posted by pym View Post
            Huh, so installing a Phalanx CIWS and a EW/Countermeasures suite is cheaper than designing a hull to standard NATO damage control specifications.

            Captas-1 is cheap and containerised, but making the necessary acoustic adjustments e.g. engine mounts, so that your SONAR isn't deaf is actually the expensive part.
            .

            Eithne's engines were resiliently mounted ( Grey's Rubber ME mounts) so much so a ME start up wasn't detectable on the bridge. Her WT standards were fully pressure and smoke tested. Her main deck was WT as were intervening bulkheads. She could operate with either engine room fully flooded, and continue with sensors and weapon with both engine rooms U/S as she had a full sized emergency generator room with it's own SWX Board.
            Fantasy Fleets is just a put down and symptomatic of a need to bolster professional self belief and standards in the Defence Forces. The target for all Branches, MUST be capability, otherwise we are just at sea!!

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            • As things stand the glass ceiling on capability is ATCP/ATCA and the units are so configured.

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              • Thanks for that ancientmariner, I hadnt realised that about the Eithne.

                I thnk the extra 20-30% cost involved in the build is worth it - if it means commissioning before full sonar/ciws fit, so be it.

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                • Danno absolutely embarrassingly right.

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                  • Originally posted by pym View Post
                    Thanks for that ancientmariner, I hadnt realised that about the Eithne.

                    I thnk the extra 20-30% cost involved in the build is worth it - if it means commissioning before full sonar/ciws fit, so be it.
                    Yeah, I seem to remember reading the same from a book written by one of the Dockyard designers (can't remember the name but he did the work on all the Irish ships) and that the US Coastguard was very impressed with it's characteristics compared to their similar hull.

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                    • Martin I think his name was. Learnt his trade in Scotland.

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                      • Originally posted by 25 pounder View Post
                        Martin I think his name was. Learnt his trade in Scotland.
                        Yes. Patrick Martin. There was also paid assistance from NEVESBU Holland with an office in the Yard covering all Bridge / Operations room integration and control over the Electromagnetic environment on Board. That ship was an open University for naval ship construction. The French were impressed accrediting the ship with a better Heli environment and motion than their Tourville Destroyer.

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                        • Pretty much debunks the vessel size/sea state argument for the non continuation of helicopter ops, leaving the obvious institutional deficiencies and preference for SAR in Baldonnel as the likely scenario.

                          On a related note but somewhat of a tangent to the thread, having seen in recent years the successful basing of helicopters at an off airport barracks location in Athlone, is there scope/space for a theoretical future
                          basing of helicopters at Haulbowline?

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                          • Originally posted by Jetjock View Post
                            Pretty much debunks the vessel size/sea state argument for the non continuation of helicopter ops, leaving the obvious institutional deficiencies and preference for SAR in Baldonnel as the likely scenario.

                            On a related note but somewhat of a tangent to the thread, having seen in recent years the successful basing of helicopters at an off airport barracks location in Athlone, is there scope/space for a theoretical future
                            basing of helicopters at Haulbowline?
                            There has always been space, in recent times the playing pitch on the eastern end has been an overnight home for helis operating to and from Ft Davis. Indeed a recent oral hearing had the DoD objecting to the building of an incinerator nearby due to the effect it may have of helicopter operations from the island.

                            The only real obstacle is a physical one, the large power lines that are a relic from the Irish Steel days. Someone elses problem. They are not connected to anything on the island any more.

                            That and convincing the nice people in blue suits that there is a world outside the greater Rathcoole/ Newcastle/ Clondalkin area, that people can live there, and aircraft do not need to return there nightly or they will turn back into pumpkins.. Hopefully the Athlone experience has killed off that mentality, though some would say Athlone is still an easy daily commute from Dublin 22. Though it may be easier to train NS Pilots, technicians etc...
                            For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                            • Powerlines (until removed) are very much the aircrews problem.

                              Is there a helipad in Haulbowline?

                              Why move a helo on detachment to Haulbowline (no NS vessel is capable of carrying one)?

                              We already know the AC is extremely critically short of pilots and tech personnel

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                              • An EPV may in theory be capable.

                                Future Naval helicopters should have nothing to do with Bal. Differing agendas would see the project fail. They should be Naval Service owned, operated and serial numbered. The only time they should leave Haulbowline is for any deep maintenance that can't be completed on site and normal embarkation.

                                By all means train pilots and techs in Dublin.

                                Helicopter operations are an integral part of modern naval doctrine. Like it or not. The future EPV concept should have not only a land-on capability but also the ability to embark a helicopter for the duration of a patrol/extended mission.
                                Last edited by Jetjock; 30 December 2016, 11:17.

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