SAR Topcover

[Meatbomb]

Yes i can confirm that R118 provided mutual assistance to R115 in the early hours of Thursday morning. IAC fixed wing unavailable yet there was a casa on the ground in Sligo at approx 17:30L on what appeared to be a training flight..... landed taxied in, never shut down, nobody got off or on and it departed ten mins later.
I agree with an earlier post, when the casa is tasked to a top cover mission they are ideally suited and equipped for the task but lets call a spade a spade, they are not always available and its not always down to serviceability, there seems to be no will at an IAC management level to provide this service on a 247/365 basis, not to mention the fact that a maritime patrol aircraft operating primarily off the west and south west coasts would be far better off being based out of shannon. Approx 2 hrs of every marpat are wasted on transit times from bal to the patrol zone.
We as tax payers fund all services in this country, including emergency services, and id be damned if id be happy if my local fire station provided fire cover on a when it suits basis, that's not providing a service and i don't think anyone would find that acceptable.
Id be happier in the knowledge that my tax contributions were being used to fund a private contracted fixed wing aircraft that could provide all the expected roles of a top cover a/c and perhaps be available for other tasks such as fisheries, customs and anti pollution. This is done internationally. The Government want savings, well id bet that savings could be made and we could have a 247/365 service we can rely on, it could even provide an air ambulance role in certain situations.

[DeV]

Yes i can confirm that R118 provided mutual assistance to R115 in the early hours of Thursday morning. IAC fixed wing unavailable yet there was a casa on the ground in Sligo at approx 17:30L on what appeared to be a training flight..... landed taxied in, never shut down, nobody got off or on and it departed ten mins later.

Unavailability of the other aircraft could have been due to:

https://www.facebook.com/#!/notes/irish-defence-forces/air-corps-casa-in-top-cover-operation/234691106575199

An Air Corps CASA provided top cover for the medical evacuation of a fisherman from a UK fishing vessel today. The vessel was 100 Nautical Miles West of the Blasket Islands when the CASA was diverted from a maritime patrol to assist. The Fisherman was taken to Tralee General Hospital.

I agree with an earlier post, when the casa is tasked to a top cover mission they are ideally suited and equipped for the task but lets call a spade a spade, they are not always available and its not always down to serviceability, there seems to be no will at an IAC management level to provide this service on a 247/365 basis

That would be up to Government & DOD, as it is them that provide the resources (and decide what goes into an SLA)

not to mention the fact that a maritime patrol aircraft operating primarily off the west and south west coasts would be far better off being based out of shannon. Approx 2 hrs of every marpat are wasted on transit times from bal to the patrol zone.

The radar starts detecting targets off the West/South West coast shortly after take off so even then it is working.

We as tax payers fund all services in this country, including emergency services, and id be damned if id be happy if my local fire station provided fire cover on a when it suits basis, that's not providing a service and i don't think anyone would find that acceptable.

My local fire stations calls are vetted/screened by the call centre in a different county to decide if it is worth sending a crew to a fire.

Id be happier in the knowledge that my tax contributions were being used to fund a private contracted fixed wing aircraft that could provide all the expected roles of a top cover a/c and perhaps be available for other tasks such as fisheries, customs and anti pollution. This is done internationally. The Government want savings, well id bet that savings could be made and we could have a 247/365 service we can rely on, it could even provide an air ambulance role in certain situations.

Internationally, you'll not normally have a multi-role privately contracted aircraft - you'll have 1 for each agency.

The CASAs do a large number of roles including:
fishery protection (which they have to spend most of their hours on as they are part EU funded - if it is anything like the NS we are looking 75-90%)
drugs/arms interdiction
anti-pollution
SAR top-cover
Air ambulance
military transport / parachuting

Availability is an issue - I'm sure more hours could be made available but are the resources (aircrew, ground crew, money, spares etc etc)

[GoneToTheCanner]

Not being based in Shannon was a long-ago political decision. Certain elements of the Don/Military hierarchy did not want to be based in Shannon, under any circumstances. As for the radar being useful immediately after takeoff, how do they filter out 100 miles of ground clutter at take-off? The abiding characteristic of that radar was it's ability to fail, giving us lots of opportunity to change it. Transit hours are a waste, despite Donner claims that it's "training" time.
regards
GttC

[pym]

afaik the radar was replaced with a new unit during the recent refit, so I'd hope it's less troublesome.

they should be in Shannon, imo.

[Goldie fish]

Shannon, or Cork, given their AO.

[DeV]

Not being based in Shannon was a long-ago political decision. Certain elements of the Don/Military hierarchy did not want to be based in Shannon, under any circumstances. As for the radar being useful immediately after takeoff, how do they filter out 100 miles of ground clutter at take-off? The abiding characteristic of that radar was it's ability to fail, giving us lots of opportunity to change it. Transit hours are a waste, despite Donner claims that it's "training" time.
regards
GttC

If it was in Shannon / Cork it would probably be a detachment...and all the associated problems. As an alternative is there tarmac in Finner?

[GoneToTheCanner]

Finner is closed but usable by small aircraft only.
the Don is the only organisation I have ever heard of that makes detaching an aircraft to an outstation a big deal.
regards
GttC

[Pure Hover]

Didn't it have military detachments along the border as well as SAR in Shannon and Finner for years. What's the big deal...?

[Goldie fish]

The Shannon SAR detachment didn't last long before it was replaced by the Coast Guard heli.

[Jetjock]

Shannon, or Cork, given their AO.

Geographically maybe but it would have to be Shannon given Cork's weather and the lack of autoland in a CASA.

[Semper Paratus]

Ideally the casa would be based on the west coast. But really a 24/7 365, top cover aircraft available somewhere would be what is needed. The air corps are all over the press when they can provide, but nothing said about the numerous requests that go unanswered.. Last week while planning for a max range job the air corps could not provide a casa but offered a aw139 as top cover. Just what range does a 139 have. Does it match the s61?? Should get interesting with one s92 on the west coast, can the casa go +350nm???

[balkanhawk]

Why don't the coastguard purchase a topcover aircraft? Have they ever tendered for one?

[Tadpole]

CG tendered a few years back for a pollution patrol aircraft with SAR Topcover as a secondary role (I think about 2002), got as far as provider selection before it suffered from cuts.

TBH the last thing the country needs is another organisation, with another asset doing jobs that can all be done by one organisation / asset.

Its simple, the Air Corps either do the job properly, Fisheries, customs, pollution and top cover 24/7/365 (they already have the assets) or the entire task should be tendered out to an organisation the can /will.

[chrisr]

cost for that service was about €1m p.a. out of Waterford I heard

[balkanhawk]

cost for that service was about €1m p.a. out of Waterford I heard

Well that seems like a bargain to me!! Using very simplistic maths that would make it 1/10th the cost of one of the new helicopters (500 million / 5 helicopters / 10 years).

From the tone of this thread there seems to be some heavy resentment out there towards the aer corps by people obviously in the know so why not solve the problem? self sufficiency.

As the meerkat in that advert says.......simples! s