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  1. #26
    gunner at heart Archimedes's Avatar
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    The position could double up as a nice campfire circle for the cold nights! A few spare charge relays would make handy firelighters and they could munch a few smores while waiting for Hedgie's illum bombs to light up.

    I'm curious as to what they lay onto? That blast wall is so close that using an aiming post or a mark on the wall would be very innaccurate. Other options might be a paralleloscope or a GAP on the distant hilltop if there is line of sight over the wall. Does anyone know?
    Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

  2. #27
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    You will find that they have an aiming post or aiming mark attached to the 4 cardinal points
    in that position;

    American mortar teams place their aiming posts between 15 and 20 feet out from the Mortar;

    if they cant find the required distance they alternate and use what are known as alpha tables

    or A Dog tables as they are better known- the A Dog tables calculate the difference in the different tabulations

    when an aiming post cant be put in at either of the recomended distances-


    You will note that they are apparantley at an altitude and as all us Mortar men know - one of the factors that influence the flight of the bomb is altitude- therefore the A Dog tables can also tabulate difference because of atitude- humidty etc etc.

    the reason they are called A Dog tables is the person who formulated them was a Marine Corp
    Seargent Major called Alan Doogan aka A Dog.
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  3. #28
    Banned User Pod's Avatar
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    I should have expalined: Picture posted with question ; question answered by post ten; why now on post 26?

  4. #29
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    The ground looks like its hardcore (broken rock, typically 50mm diameter) that was brought in to level the site and no consideration was given for the mortar base. While the hardcore might be firm, it might also be too firm and be difficult to bed things in.

    The sand is to level things off and fill the gaps between the stones to stop the tri-pod shoes and base plate being dented / cracked / damaged and give a limited amount of squeeze.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Margaret Mead

  5. #30
    gunner at heart Archimedes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hedgehog View Post
    ... the A Dog tables can also tabulate difference because of atitude- humidty etc etc.
    Thanks for that.
    I'm surprised to hear that an army that uses technology so much in other areas is using tables as their primary method of calculating MET corrections.
    Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

  6. #31
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    I imagine there are computer versions as well

    but it all goes back the the story about NASA spending millions researching a pen that could write

    in space whereas those damn Ruskies gave their lads a pencil.
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  7. #32
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    Every mortarman should be able to fire his gun accurately using old tabular methods, as well as being able to use computers.
    regards
    GttC

  8. #33
    gunner at heart Archimedes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hedgehog View Post
    I imagine there are computer versions as well

    but it all goes back the the story about NASA spending millions researching a pen that could write

    in space whereas those damn Ruskies gave their lads a pencil.
    The problem with pencils was that the nib could snap off and float into something.
    I take your point though that you always need a backup for when the batteries run out.

    from wiki:

    Uses in the U.S. and Russian space programs

    Russian cosmonauts used pencils, and grease pencils on plastic slates until also adopting a space pen in 1969 with a purchase of 100 units for use on all future missions. [1] NASA programs previously used pencils (for example a 1965 order of mechanical pencils[2]) but because of the danger that a broken-off pencil tip poses in zero gravity and the flammable nature of the wood present in pencils[2] a better solution was needed. NASA never approached Paul Fisher to develop a pen, nor did Fisher receive any government funding for the pen's development. Fisher invented it independently, and then asked NASA to try it. After the introduction of the AG7 Space Pen, both the American and Soviet (later Russian) space agencies adopted it.
    Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

  9. #34
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    Mate you have way to much time on your hands;

    and I thought we agreed at committee level that the only ones who use Wiki as a source of

    reference on here are ladyboys or lads with faces like Harry Rednap after a session in Galway

    with ****n C***n
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pod View Post
    I should have expalined: Picture posted with question ; question answered by post ten; why now on post 26?
    I dunno, but your post made me think of this....


  11. #36
    gunner at heart Archimedes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hedgehog View Post
    Mate you have way to much time on your hands;
    and I thought we agreed at committee level that the only ones who use Wiki as a source of reference on here are ladyboys or lads with faces like Harry Rednap after a session in Galway with ****n C***n
    Ahh, I obviously missed the memo while on the session,
    (I'm the one on the left in the second pic)


    Last edited by Archimedes; 23rd March 2011 at 17:10.
    Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

  12. #37
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    Great pics of you

    did you say left as we are lloking at it
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  13. #38
    gunner at heart Archimedes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hedgehog View Post
    Great pics of you

    did you say left as we are lloking at it
    Perhaps I should have included a smiley at the end of my previous post
    Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

  14. #39
    Captain Truck Driver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    Every mortarman should be able to fire his gun accurately using old tabular methods, as well as being able to use computers.
    regards
    GttC
    True, you'd never know when the battery would die on that laptop or the GPS would be turned off
    when the next baloon goes up, etc etc

    Quote Originally Posted by Archimedes View Post
    The problem with pencils was that the nib could snap off and float into something....
    Yep, and ink runs in the rain....

    Quote Originally Posted by hedgehog View Post
    Mate you have way to much time on your hands
    Hello Kettle, this is Pot, Message - Over .....
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

  15. #40
    gunner at heart Archimedes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truck Driver View Post
    Yep, and ink runs in the rain....
    I'm thinking that you assumed that we were still on topic and talking about what we would use to write with on a mortar position.

    We were actually so far OT that earthly weather phenomenon were of no concern.

    Back on earth, never leave home without your chinagraph (aka grease pencil)
    Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

  16. #41
    Commander in Chief RoyalGreenJacket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lordinajamjar View Post
    I am not an experienced military man like yourself Paul but as a civilian observer it appears to me from the smoke in the picture that there has been some kind of discharge from that tripod thingy....
    there certainly is 'some kind of discharge' when you fire a mortar LordJJ:







    British Soldiers firing the 81mm Mortar in Afghanistan.

    as they say - "...there's no smoke without fire..."
    RGJ

    ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

    The Rifles

  17. #42
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    hi all,
    I remember wondering why we all had black faces after firing the old Brandt 81mm in the FCA.Scarcely ducking after sending the bomb down the tube! Good fun, though.
    regards
    GttC

  18. #43
    Private 3* Jungle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
    there certainly is 'some kind of discharge' when you fire a mortar LordJJ:
    Yeah, there's also a metal thingy:

    "On the plains of hesitation, bleach the bones of countless millions, who on the very dawn of victory, laid down to rest, and in resting died.

    Never give up!!"

  19. #44
    Aha: Death=Preconception Lordinajamjar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jungle View Post
    Yeah, there's also a metal thingy:


    I see it! Thanks Jungle. I just knew there had be something more.

    RGJ those photos are brilliant by the way. Were you involved in that action yourself?
    Last edited by Lordinajamjar; 16th September 2010 at 03:49.

    "When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love."


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  20. #45
    Commander in Chief RoyalGreenJacket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lordinajamjar View Post
    RGJ those photos are brilliant by the way. Were you involved in that action yourself?
    no LordJJ unfortunately i only saw action in Iraq so these are not my pics, although i have fired a few bombs from the 81 in my time, but never in anger.

    it is, as anyone who has fired a mortar will tell you - quite a shocking and exciting experience with a shockwave that penetrates your inner core.

    what the US soldiers are doing in supporting the bi-pod legs is not something i have seen our lads do as our mortars are normally very well bedded in with the prior firing of smoke and illume before going to HE, but i guess it's necessary sometimes and particularly in the instance of that original pic as they may have had to fire on a different target.
    RGJ

    ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

    The Rifles

  21. #46
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
    it is, as anyone who has fired a mortar will tell you - quite a shocking and exciting experience with a shockwave that penetrates your inner core.
    You should try sitting in the turret of an AML90 firing HEAT.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  22. #47
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    hi all,
    Have a look at YouTube about mortars and you will see an American 81mm being fired in a very ad-hoc fashion in Afghanistan in reaction to an attack on a base.
    regards
    GttC

  23. #48
    Retired sapper smegers's Avatar
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    i found this, skip to 1:57


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