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  • #91
    I still firmly believe that the reserve targets the wrong potential recruits anyway. Those that it gets are still in school, and will be lost before/after leaving cert. The notion that the RDF is someplace to dip your toe to see if the military life is for you should go. That is what induction of PDF recruit training is for.
    Not sure if the military life is for you and want to give it a try without committing to it 24 hours a day/365 days a year? The gate is that way. Goodbye.
    I was lucky enough to have joined the FCA/RDF twice.
    First as someone who wanted to join the PDF, dippin my toe. First year, full of energy, turned up for everything early. I wanted to join the Army as a Cadet, Navy recruit, Air Corps Apprentice, British army, FFL who knows. Then came leaving cert and year one college, yerra I'll show up when it suits. Became clear I wasn't gonna join the PDF so I put a bit more time and effort in, they put me on a POTS course. The week before I was due to go on mod 1, I got my call to the GS. Luckily there was another available to take "my" space on the course, and I remember being quite miffed about that. After all, I wasn't starting in the GS till well after the course...
    After the GS, I had a different outlook. I had served the state in another uniform, I wanted to continue to do so, while continuing in my normal day job. I had no aspirations of joining the ARW or Navy seals or flying in helicopters. I joined in the usual way, I did do an accellerated recruit training, but otherwise was happy to muck in with the rest of the privates. I hope that the service I gave them in the 12 years after was worth the second chance they gave me. First time round I was involved in a few exercises as a private and a/cpl, threw a frenade, nmothing spectacular, probably because my departure was inevitable, and the powers that be saw there was no point wasting courses on me, meanwhile my friends who put in the hours got 84 and 90, 60 and 81 courses.
    Second time round they sent me on a POTS, Std NCO, ISTAR, Driving and 90mm course, because I was staying around, they also let me represent them on numerous shooting competitions.

    I have often said it, to paraphrase Groucho Marx, I'd hate to be a member of a club that would have me as a member. First time round, my version of a recruit was what most were, and within 2 years, only 5 of that recruit platoon of 35 still served.

    Target the stable candidate, who is in for the long term, not the toe dipper.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

    Comment


    • #92
      Target the stable candidate, who is in for the long term, not the toe dipper.
      Yes to a certain extent,that of longevity, but if this means a billy bunter stores type who as soon as hard ( i was going to say Infantry but any hard tack soldiering ) turns up it's like roadrunner was just on scene, then that's even worse cos then I can't get that smelly fecker off the books cos he keep sturning up
      "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

      "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by Saab View Post
        I always feel that you need a certain critical mass of troops to make the program work.

        Surely it makes better sence to start recruitment in January. Local units get their best NCOs out there recruituing and as best they can vetting applicants.
        Get them all in enmass on a saturday with someone to do some form of physical fitness training/test and a basic medical exam.

        During the day they can be assessed and all the paperwork checked.

        At the end of the day those deemed un suitable can be told and no more time wasted. Others can be then processed.

        This should then have all potential candidates processed in a timely manner and ready for some intensive weekend training in the lead up to the summer and then 2 weeks intensive FTT.

        Those that make it to the end of the 2 weeks could then be posted to units.
        Sorry man but are you ACTUALLY in the RDF??
        hedons have more fun.

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by trellheim View Post
          Yes to a certain extent,that of longevity, but if this means a billy bunter stores type who as soon as hard ( i was going to say Infantry but any hard tack soldiering ) turns up it's like roadrunner was just on scene, then that's even worse cos then I can't get that smelly fecker off the books cos he keep sturning up
          True, every unit has those who just keep turning up, are of no value whatsoever and you have to find something for them to do that is out of sight where they can't hurt themselves or anyone else.


          Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by trellheim View Post
            Yes to a certain extent,that of longevity, but if this means a billy bunter stores type who as soon as hard ( i was going to say Infantry but any hard tack soldiering ) turns up it's like roadrunner was just on scene, then that's even worse cos then I can't get that smelly fecker off the books cos he keep sturning up
            But then you have the catch 22 situation of billy bunter stores type that also happens to be a driver and does the duties no one else wants to do!

            eg: driving a tcv/ffr/minibus, doing security, looking after stores etc so the other troops can do their (hard) training!

            Would you fancy losing maybe a section+ if them types werent around? or not being able to do an exercise cause you cant get a driver?

            My gripe is with the type that only turns up for ARP's and FTT to get the grat and is never seen till the following year.
            hedons have more fun.

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
              I still firmly believe that the reserve targets the wrong potential recruits anyway. Those that it gets are still in school, and will be lost before/after leaving cert. The notion that the RDF is someplace to dip your toe to see if the military life is for you should go. That is what induction of PDF recruit training is for.
              Not sure if the military life is for you and want to give it a try without committing to it 24 hours a day/365 days a year? The gate is that way. Goodbye.
              I was lucky enough to have joined the FCA/RDF twice.
              First as someone who wanted to join the PDF, dippin my toe. First year, full of energy, turned up for everything early. I wanted to join the Army as a Cadet, Navy recruit, Air Corps Apprentice, British army, FFL who knows. Then came leaving cert and year one college, yerra I'll show up when it suits. Became clear I wasn't gonna join the PDF so I put a bit more time and effort in, they put me on a POTS course. The week before I was due to go on mod 1, I got my call to the GS. Luckily there was another available to take "my" space on the course, and I remember being quite miffed about that. After all, I wasn't starting in the GS till well after the course...
              After the GS, I had a different outlook. I had served the state in another uniform, I wanted to continue to do so, while continuing in my normal day job. I had no aspirations of joining the ARW or Navy seals or flying in helicopters. I joined in the usual way, I did do an accellerated recruit training, but otherwise was happy to muck in with the rest of the privates. I hope that the service I gave them in the 12 years after was worth the second chance they gave me. First time round I was involved in a few exercises as a private and a/cpl, threw a frenade, nmothing spectacular, probably because my departure was inevitable, and the powers that be saw there was no point wasting courses on me, meanwhile my friends who put in the hours got 84 and 90, 60 and 81 courses.
              Second time round they sent me on a POTS, Std NCO, ISTAR, Driving and 90mm course, because I was staying around, they also let me represent them on numerous shooting competitions.

              I have often said it, to paraphrase Groucho Marx, I'd hate to be a member of a club that would have me as a member. First time round, my version of a recruit was what most were, and within 2 years, only 5 of that recruit platoon of 35 still served.

              Target the stable candidate, who is in for the long term, not the toe dipper.
              Good post. One thing. If the unit focuses too much on recruits that are in for the long haul, is it likely to result in an eventual power struggle and too many chiefs rather than Indians? Just from looking at some posts on here, it is clear the RDF needs a better enlistment process but that is my two cents.
              Also, did you get fed up after your 12 years second time round?

              Comment


              • #97
                There are people and jobs to be done but everyone is a soldier first. Having said that I think there is a place for most (who can look after themselves, are relatively fit, do what they are ordered to do etc etc).

                You need a certain degree of natural wastage otherwise overtime you end up with a lot of older privates.

                Comment


                • #98
                  i'll tell you about natural wastage. I'll put up a graph soon.
                  "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                  "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Target the stable candidate, who is in for the long term, not the toe dipper
                    .

                    look what he did second time round and the change in age profile,


                    I joined the FCA...after ASM..after the NS , second career, married , mortgage, new town, and changed a job around it and not without significant reference input from the FCA!...all before 25 to 27..went on my POTS at 27 and had settled into the FCA / RDF as a second /backround life style with a whole term in front of me which I chose to move on from 17 years later.

                    Was I of benefit to the unit, they seemed to think so , given I won my last all army shooting title against people my kids age at 42 years of age, I was still committing over and above that of officers, and was predictable, they could ring and ask would I be able to commit to events at a few days notice or at six months notice.

                    It cost the DF a couple of grand a year, most of which I put back in through private purchase kit, petrol, lost earnings...but the positive side I was enjoying it.. I broke even.

                    And I wasn't alone, I could pull a section together at the drop of a hat of people in the same unit with the same ethos...but you have to look where they came from and why they were there...and funnily enough..none of them were the straight out of school brigade.

                    Not knocking the guys who join while in school. did it with ASM with some of the intents and purposes, have to say even now I'd go back to NSR for far different reasons even having done the RDF thing and while I could commit again given life changes I'd go back without rank, just for the fun of it.


                    i'll tell you about natural wastage. I'll put up a graph soon.
                    Has to be unit specific, otherwise, it can't deal with social and economic factors and is too general
                    Last edited by hptmurphy; 21 February 2012, 23:58.
                    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by ned stark View Post
                      My gripe is with the type that only turns up for ARP's and FTT to get the grat and is never seen till the following year.
                      Ned, you are aware that there is a requirement for unpaid field days / training nights in addition to FTT/APWT ?

                      Are your unit policing THIS aspect of the grat requirements properly ?

                      Given the Unit OC is personally liable for grat payments (genuine or erroneous - the latter for which he/she must pay out of own pocket, if flagged)
                      Last edited by Truck Driver; 22 February 2012, 09:09.
                      "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by ned stark View Post
                        Sorry man but are you ACTUALLY in the RDF??
                        Why would you ask that?

                        Barriers are constantly put up to anything new.

                        There is not just one type that would be suitable for the RDF but there certainally is a wrong type.

                        IF you want to get the right types then something has to change. Whether you go for older, more stable recruits or not you still will have a certain number that will decide its not for them.

                        Originally posted by Truck Driver View Post
                        Are your unit policing THIS aspect of the grat requirements properly ?
                        The unpaid requirement is not overly burdensome. A couple of field days and you are sorted. I know some of the lads in my unit cover it by doing shooting team and orienteering.

                        Given the Unit OC is personally liable for grat payments (genuine or erroneous - the latter for which he/she must pay out of own pocket, if flagged)
                        You learn something new every day.

                        Comment


                        • recruitment is currently based on what fitted ten years ago , throw 30 people at it , 5 will turn up once and will never be seen again , another ten will be lost for medical reasons some will loose interest because of exams ect ,if you are lucky ten will be eligible for camp , one wont turn up on the day. in four years time you may still have a few

                          any unit I have been in has run a first past the post system simply because of the natural wastage of the system , It would be a different story if we had medicals and security clearance and could set up a panel , but it is pot luck if somebody has poor hearing or colour blindness . in the current system sometimes you get a lemon and sometimes you get a gem , only something difficult will flag the absolute wasters and they are sworn in at this stage . the new syllabus has recruiting taking place from sep with interviews ect , but when no permission is given to take on recruits until jan it will be a scramble as it always was ,
                          "take a look to the sky right before you die, its the last time you will"

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by greyfox View Post
                            recruitment is currently based on what fitted ten years ago , throw 30 people at it , 5 will turn up once and will never be seen again , another ten will be lost for medical reasons some will loose interest because of exams ect ,if you are lucky ten will be eligible for camp , one wont turn up on the day. in four years time you may still have a few

                            any unit I have been in has run a first past the post system simply because of the natural wastage of the system , It would be a different story if we had medicals and security clearance and could set up a panel , but it is pot luck if somebody has poor hearing or colour blindness . in the current system sometimes you get a lemon and sometimes you get a gem , only something difficult will flag the absolute wasters and they are sworn in at this stage . the new syllabus has recruiting taking place from sep with interviews ect , but when no permission is given to take on recruits until jan it will be a scramble as it always was ,
                            Interviews ??? Is this on the 2011 Recruiit Trg syllabus ? News to me...
                            "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

                            Comment


                            • it in section 4 but my idea of the interview may differ from the reality ,
                              Last edited by greyfox; 22 February 2012, 15:21.
                              "take a look to the sky right before you die, its the last time you will"

                              Comment


                              • IF you want to get the right types then something has to change. Whether you go for older, more stable recruits or not you still will have a certain number that will decide its not for them.
                                Very true but if your target audience has attained a degree of stability in employment, personal circumstances, relationships, they will be in a position to commit for a longer term and thus give better VFM.

                                At most you get two years from 90% of the intake, thats no VFM either for what it takes to quip or the man hours given over to training them.

                                Most of those in this age group would be better off in an army cadet ( UK model)type environment from the age of about 15 and would graduate to reservist status at 17/18 having attained satisfactory results from a cadet program and having done the basics and know what the role entails and go into Reserve Status with eyes wide open, or just opt out when their cadet status has expired.

                                The reserve could then be aimed at a more mature audience or those who had previously been a cadet and a lot of the boisterous school boy element would already have expired .

                                Something is certain even without the threat of disbanding on a financial basis , if the Reserve dosen't get its finger out and maintain acceptable manning levels of people with the right skills base and optimum availability, it will die.
                                Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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