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Could this be the end of Army Heli Op's?

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  • #31
    Its worth taking a look at the way the UN use aviation assets - they are centralised assets for the whole force and are available to any deployed nation. They are operated under a UN ops manual which also covers the UN hired civilian companies so that should tell you how 'robust' it is. None of this is a big secret, its always been that way. In that regard, the AW139 would have no problems in the Leb. As regards manpads, well if thats the environment you're operating in then you have to think about what else you need apart from utility helicopters.
    The will is there but the air corps must be tasked to provide assets.

    As to the aircrafts logs supply etc, remember - when it was bought the White paper was very much in effect , whatever its status is now is really for another thread.

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    • #32
      http://www.defence.ie/website.nsf/72804bb4760386f380256c610055a16b/93191a155924dad5802570c8005065d3/$FILE/whiteppr.pdf

      see 4.10.8. !!!
      This was obsolete by 2005 and probably before!

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      • #33
        Looking at another thread. How much and how long to upgrade the 139's from "A's" to "M's"and with the will sending to far off fields.

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        • #34
          Looking at the specs, they just seem to have added some sort of NBC protection......


          Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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          • #35
            What I want to know is what stopped us buying ex-Yank Blackhawks, or even a few more Borat ex Soviet jobs both in cheap supply, and combat tested, instead of the green civvy helicopters we have too few of/can't do overseas with.
            Aut viam inveniam aut faciam.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Captain Edmund Blackadder View Post
              What I want to know is what stopped us buying ex-Yank Blackhawks, or even a few more Borat ex Soviet jobs both in cheap supply, and combat tested, instead of the green civvy helicopters we have too few of/can't do overseas with.
              Perhaps they weren't interested in providing overseas service.

              The AW-139 is ideal for domestic use - the yanks use similar spec civvy helicopters (EC-145's) for "Homeland Security, administrative, logistic, Medical Evacuation (MEDEVAC) and support of the Army Test and Training Centers missions."

              I may be way off on this, but I'd imagine Blackhawks/Mi-17's are more expensive & labour intensive to operate compared to a modern Civvy which is why the Americans went down the EC-145 route and why we went down the AW-139 one.

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              • #37
                We were buying blackhawks until Agusta or what ever other company had a tender in complained that the tender was leaning towards blackhawk.....

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                • #38
                  One thing I can never understand and maybe someone can help me? I know the 139s where purchased for, among other roles, ARW support and general training of the army, however as an Army section is x (more than 8) men, and the 139 only takes 8, does this not compromise training?

                  MOD: Operational info
                  Last edited by DeV; 18 February 2011, 21:16.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Craghopper View Post
                    We were buying blackhawks until Agusta or what ever other company had a tender in complained that the tender was leaning towards blackhawk.....
                    Provide proof of that please.
                    "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Craghopper View Post
                      We were buying blackhawks until Agusta or what ever other company had a tender in complained that the tender was leaning towards blackhawk.....





                      Blackhawks at the time only had analog cockpits. glass ones were extra.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
                        you would want to be a very brave or very stupid man to sanction the use of any heli without an ECM / Defensive suite in any credible conflict nowadays.
                        Besides lead and rpg's what are the treats to the heli's in A-stan that would require

                        ECM/ defensive suites. ?

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by ias View Post
                          one thing i can never understand and maybe someone can help me? I know the 139s where purchased for, among other roles, arw support and general training of the army, however as an army section is x men, and the 139 only takes x-1, does this not compromise training?
                          ??

                          Originally posted by sofa View Post
                          besides lead and rpg's what are the treats to the heli's in a-stan that would require

                          ecm/ defensive suites. ?
                          manpads
                          Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by ias View Post
                            One thing I can never understand and maybe someone can help me? I know the 139s where purchased for, among other roles, ARW support and general training of the army, however as an Army section is x (more than 8) men, and the 139 only takes 8, does this not compromise training?

                            MOD: Operational info
                            There is method in the madness but that is operational info

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by sofa View Post
                              Besides lead and rpg's what are the treats to the heli's in A-stan that would require

                              ECM/ defensive suites. ?
                              look:

                              www.guardian.co.uk/manpads

                              www.timesonline.co.uk/manpads

                              i know these are jsut news reports but MANPAD is out there, and even if it hasn't been successful yet - you have to pre-empt such an attack at any time out there.
                              Last edited by RoyalGreenJacket; 19 February 2011, 02:44.
                              RGJ

                              ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

                              The Rifles

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                              • #45
                                Did not know they still possessed them

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