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  • Yes, but France had a very different relationship with Lebanon to the other contributing states.
    For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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    • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
      Yes, but France had a very different relationship with Lebanon to the other contributing states.
      Italy deployed their Centauro with the nice 105mm.

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      • Did we not have AML 90s in the Leb
        "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

        "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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        • Originally posted by trellheim View Post
          Did we not have AML 90s in the Leb
          Yes and Dutch has TOWs in. Early 1980s

          But did here that the Israelis blocked Irish use of SINCGARS initially

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          • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
            Bosnia and Kosovo: every western MBT was to be seen.
            UNIFIl the French not only took their Leclers with them but also AMC F1 155mm SPH *did keep them there long)
            And I could go on; thing is, if you do not have them, you can never take them with you.
            Could not see the French put up with this st1t.
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zBspZdEb5Q At 1h.4min an MTB turns up.
            Last edited by sofa; 22 January 2020, 22:31.

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            • So the firepower is to be a 30mm and an egg-thrower and a Javelin, which gives you coverage of about 1200 metres, while our two primary capbadges argue about who does what with what, the artillery rusts in the Curragh,except for maybe a token 120mm towed mortar on tour and the DoF declines to find the money for anything bigger, wheeled or towed? What did I leave out?

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              • Originally posted by sofa View Post
                Could not see the French put up with this st1t.
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zBspZdEb5Q At 1h.4min an MTB turns up.
                In 2006 they didn't:
                https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,...309378,00.html

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                • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                  In my old copy of FM3-21.31 SCBT (2003) it is true the MGS's were allocated to the Infantry Battalions but it seems now that the M1128 MGS vehicles together with the M1134 ATGM vehicles have been transferred at least in some units to the Cavalry Sqd. The SCBT's that have done this so far are those which are based around Cavalry Regiments.
                  http://www.fortcarsonmountaineer.com...weapons-troop/
                  This cavalry weapons troop is made up of 6 platoons, 3 with 3x M1134s and 3 with 4x M1128s. Also at least one SCBT, 2 Cav has introduced into its RSTA (ISTAR) squadron also now the up gunned M1296 Striker with the Kongsberg MCT30 turrets. The US Army at least sees the need to put much more fire power into their Cavalry units, at least in Europe as the likely opponents are more heavily armed. But as we know these same vehicles are also heavily exported and there is a good chance we could be squared off against a similar level of threat.

                  Also remember the MGS was to provide Direct Fire Support while M1129 MC have 120mm mortars for indirect, and the SCBT also has their (3x 6) M777 for longer range indirect support.
                  In the US Army, a Squadron is the equivalent to a Battalion, a Troop is the equivalent to a Company or a Cav Squadron here.
                  They do not have 105mm or ATGM Stryker's in their recce/scout Troops.
                  If you are going to make comparisons they need to be of equivalent size units.

                  Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
                  So the firepower is to be a 30mm and an egg-thrower and a Javelin, which gives you coverage of about 1200 metres
                  The Javelin on the RWS has hit targets at ranges over 4,000m.

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                  • Originally posted by Rhodes View Post
                    In the US Army, a Squadron is the equivalent to a Battalion, a Troop is the equivalent to a Company or a Cav Squadron here.
                    They do not have 105mm or ATGM Stryker's in their recce/scout Troops.
                    If you are going to make comparisons they need to be of equivalent size units.
                    The SBCT Weapons Team consisting of the 105mm and ATGM Stryker's are now allocated to the Cavalry.
                    This is defined in ATP 3-21.91 Para1.59:
                    "1-59. The SBCT weapons troop role is to facilitate the SBCT’s maneuver by providing direct fires. Employed correctly and in synchronization with other maneuver units they facilitate the SBCT to close with the enemy; repel the enemy’s attack by fire or allow other units break contact. Within the SBCT the weapons troop is assigned to the Cavalry squadron by MTOE. In garrison the Cavalry squadron manages the home station gunnery training, maintenance, and Soldier military occupational specialty development and assignment. In operations the weapons troop assignment is ultimately determined by the SBCT commander’s orders."

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                    • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                      The Stryker which is the American cousin of the PIII has a 105mm fitted, the M1129 Mobile Gun System, so in theory a PIII should be capable of being fitted with the same turret system.
                      Agreed, but the problem here is "in theory" it should be capable of taking a 105.

                      DF have rarely, if ever, had good experiences with developmental or first models of anything. Best to stay well away from any situation where we are first customer for anything.

                      My point broadly is, unless we buy Stryker or another brand, there is not a common 105 for Piranha. We can have DF but with added type to fleet. Which is more desirable, added force protection or fleet commonality?

                      Further to my questions, is missiles on our RWS systems an option instead of "solid shots" for DF and / or extended ranges? A cheaper option to new turrets, hulls, types??
                      An army is power. Its entire purpose is to coerce others. This power can not be used carelessly or recklessly. This power can do great harm. We have seen more suffering than any man should ever see, and if there is going to be an end to it, it must be an end that justifies the cost. Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain

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                      • Well Rhodes says our RWS on the MOWAGs will be able to take Javelin in the near future so maybe the answer is a combination within the Bde Cav Sqns and 1 ACS of:

                        LTAVs (can’t remember the version the Cav have is it RWS or pintle GPMG?)
                        CRVs (with combination of HMGs, AGLs and Javelins)
                        MRVs (with 30mm)

                        We just need more vehicles (and personnel)

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                        • Fitted for,but not equipped with. A bitter, long running joke over on Arrse.

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                          • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                            The SBCT Weapons Team consisting of the 105mm and ATGM Stryker's are now allocated to the Cavalry.
                            This is defined in ATP 3-21.91 Para1.59:
                            "1-59. The SBCT weapons troop role is to facilitate the SBCT’s maneuver by providing direct fires. Employed correctly and in synchronization with other maneuver units they facilitate the SBCT to close with the enemy; repel the enemy’s attack by fire or allow other units break contact. Within the SBCT the weapons troop is assigned to the Cavalry squadron by MTOE. In garrison the Cavalry squadron manages the home station gunnery training, maintenance, and Soldier military occupational specialty development and assignment. In operations the weapons troop assignment is ultimately determined by the SBCT commander’s orders."
                            You obviously didn't read what you quoted, so I'll say it again.
                            A US Army Squadron is a Battalion size unit, its no comparison to an Irish Squadron which is Company size.

                            Originally posted by X-RayOne View Post
                            Further to my questions, is missiles on our RWS systems an option instead of "solid shots" for DF and / or extended ranges? A cheaper option to new turrets, hulls, types??
                            In the near future, all going well, all the Infantry DRWS's will be upgraded to take the Javelin. The estimated cost for this project is so low it wouldn't buy one 105mm Mowag, so will be excellent value for money when/if it's done.

                            Originally posted by DeV View Post
                            Well Rhodes says our RWS on the MOWAGs will be able to take Javelin in the near future so maybe the answer is a combination within the Bde Cav Sqns and 1 ACS of:

                            LTAVs (can’t remember the version the Cav have is it RWS or pintle GPMG?)
                            CRVs (with combination of HMGs, AGLs and Javelins)
                            MRVs (with 30mm)

                            We just need more vehicles (and personnel)
                            The Javelin is an Infantry weapon, not a Cav weapon. They also don't use the DRWS.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
                              Fitted for,but not equipped with.
                              That should be the Strapline of UK Defence procurement...
                              'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

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                              • Originally posted by Rhodes View Post
                                You obviously didn't read what you quoted, so I'll say it again.
                                A US Army Squadron is a Battalion size unit, its no comparison to an Irish Squadron which is Company size.
                                I did read and no where in the reply did I make a comparison on size!
                                The point was the that the M1128 105mm MGS are Cavalry vehicles under the control of the Cavalry Squadron. They together with the M1134 ATGW vehicles are attached to the Infantry battalions but are cavalry:

                                1st In BN gets A TRP CAV SQDN with 1st PLT with 3 ATGW and 4th PLT with 4 MGS
                                2nd In BN gets B TRP CAV SQDN with 2nd PLT with 3 ATGW and 5th PLT with 4 MGS
                                3rd In BN gets C TRP CAV SQDN with 3rd PLT with 3 ATGW and 6PLT with 4 MGS

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