Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Air Corps helicopter fire fighting

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    Originally posted by pym View Post
    DF getting a lot of stick for the delay in deploying the helicopters/troops on ground - request was made at 9am.
    Because of course, on an Easter Monday, the entire DF would have been sitting around their barracks at 07.00 in case anybody needed them to fight fires in Donegal...
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

    Comment


    • #62
      Maybe Saoradh should have sent their elite foot stomping military surplus wearing troops to help out .
      Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Flamingo View Post
        Because of course, on an Easter Monday, the entire DF would have been sitting around their barracks at 07.00 in case anybody needed them to fight fires in Donegal...
        And because the chain of comms goes from local TD to Minister

        Comment


        • #64
          From RTE.

          ....Asked about the response time from the Air Corps to the fire, spokesman Captain Kevin Fitzgerald said the Air Corps does not have the resources for a dedicated firefighting service.

          He said the Air Corps is not the primary firefighting agency for the State, so when it was given the tasking it had to mobilise a crew first.



          Capt Fitzgerald said there is a crew in Baldonnell for the Garda Air Support Unit and in Athlone for the medical service.

          Local TD Pat the Cope Gallagher issued a statement last night questioning why it took, what he said was seven hours, for the Air Corps to mobilise a helicopter to assist in the firefighting effort.

          Capt Fitzgerald said the crew tasking was approved at around 1pm yesterday, but the morning was spent assembling a crew.

          He said such a tasking cannot be launched straight away as a crew has to be assembled and briefed on the situation.
          A huge community effort has been praised after a major gorse fire was brought under control in Co Donegal.

          Comment


          • #65
            Department only approved the request around 1pm

            Comment


            • #66
              If Pat wasnt so busy being a shouty man, he could have asked the British Army or PSNI to detail a helicopter to do a bit of crossborder cooperation and deploy a bambi bucket, whilst waiting for the AC to get sorted, or he could have picked up the phone book, looked under "H" for helicopter and rung around, asking if anyone had a turbine helicopter lying idle, with a bambi bucket going spare, for a bit of firefighting. Back in the day, Irish Helis used to do it, with a Huey...

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
                If Pat wasnt so busy being a shouty man, he could have asked the British Army or PSNI to detail a helicopter to do a bit of crossborder cooperation and deploy a bambi bucket, whilst waiting for the AC to get sorted, or he could have picked up the phone book, looked under "H" for helicopter and rung around, asking if anyone had a turbine helicopter lying idle, with a bambi bucket going spare, for a bit of firefighting. Back in the day, Irish Helis used to do it, with a Huey...
                I understamd a civvy heli was in action before the air corps aircraft became available.
                For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                  I understamd a civvy heli was in action before the air corps aircraft became available.
                  Coillte have a contracted helicopter for fire fighting.
                  Last edited by Rhodes; 27 April 2019, 00:00.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    As it seems another summer of (very) hot, dry periods are about to hit Europe and Ireland again, fire fighting use might be a good reason for the Air Corps to trial some heavier lift, relatively basic transport helicopters?

                    Not just for bigger under-slung water buckets, but maybe alternating with carrying fire crews and their equipment inside the helicopters.
                    If such helicopters are then chosen and obtained, when these are ‘out-of-season’ for fire fighting, and other civil aid functions, they could of course be used for other more military duties.

                    Whatever Coillte may have available to them for rent/ contract for fire fighting, i’m going to guess that they would not be of anything bigger equivalent than the Air Corp’s current light/ medium AW139 helicopters.

                    Either way, with more hot summers, and fires likely, more and not less aircraft will likely be needed (helicopters... (or... fixed-wing very specialised planes)) and with well-qualified pilots, who also have less restrictions to access whatever areas for flying.

                    In Ireland, there are not a huge amount of forests compared to other countries, and as a result forestry is fairly precious, as either they are cash crops (e.g. conifers, not just Coillte’s), and the more recreational/ tourism/ wildlife ‘broad leaf’ forests are not that common, so also very valuable in their own (many) ways.
                    Then there are also potential bog fires? What are Bord Na Mona’s provisions for this, or worse what happens with any fires (?) on remaining non-Bord Na Mona bogs if they are vulnerable?

                    Such assets could also be used for co-operation for these kinds of duties in extreme cases, in other European countries (i guess i can’t just state the ‘EU’ any more!), which in the last decade there obviously have been some. A very functional and PR friendly (but ultimately part-time) use overall i would have thought.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      There is a multitude of well proven reasons the Air Corps should have more helicopters, not just larger ones. The reqirement for MLH that saw us almost get S92s a decade ago have not changed. If anything, there are more reasons for it.
                      The problem is keeping aircraft in the air. It appears aircraft availability is becoming an issue, a recent flypast in Clifden only managed to see 2 PC9 and one Casa. 4 PC9 would have been the norm in the past.
                      You need to have enough aircraft to allow for 40% availability at least, and enough tecnicians to keep that 40% flying while others are in various states of maintenance. Having enough pilots would also help.
                      For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        AW139 is probably adequate for the 1,000 litre Bambi bucket. There is possibly the issue of range but that can (and is) offset by sending a tanker.

                        The problem is more aircraft availability (also tied to technician Availability) and pilot availability. 2-3 x AW139 will achieve the aim faster and more efficiently than 1.

                        Also important is speed of response, so firstly that means early detection, early response to fire brigade (including calling out of Civil Defence (who’s Auxiliary Fire Service now concentrate on flooding)), early call to DoD, quick decision making & early wheels up

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Hire in a CL-415 if you want serious water bombing capability; the entire country is full of bodies of water that they can refill on and land on and the country is falling down with airports and airfields that a CL-415 can use. Hire a crew and aircraft for the period from May to September and the amount of fires they quench will justify the cost.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            I'm surprised at how numerous the above CL-415 family is for fire-fighting fleets around the world!

                            Have a look at the below links to the 'Godzilla' of seaplanes, and all you never wanted to know about large amphibian planes

                            This page is about By Land, Sea, or Air  US-2. ShinMaywa Group will contribute to the overall well-being of humanity, bringing unstinting innovation for a stable society and positive living environment.


                            This page is about By Land, Sea, or Air  US-2. ShinMaywa Group will contribute to the overall well-being of humanity, bringing unstinting innovation for a stable society and positive living environment.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Just to give you a real world example of a hire-in currently operating in Ireland: there's a Learjet at the HSE's beck and call in Dublin Airport, sitting there at Eu 20,000 a week, to airlift patients for urgent out-of-State medical attention. That's tasty money, by any standard, so hiring in a fire bomber wouldnt be beyond the means of the State.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
                                Just to give you a real world example of a hire-in currently operating in Ireland: there's a Learjet at the HSE's beck and call in Dublin Airport, sitting there at Eu 20,000 a week, to airlift patients for urgent out-of-State medical attention. That's tasty money, by any standard, so hiring in a fire bomber wouldnt be beyond the means of the State.
                                Your figures are way off.

                                The contract is worth €7m over 2 years. Figure is almost €10k per day.

                                And remember, this isnt a 24/7 service. This is only available in very limited circumstances. So if there is an organ harvest in Cork/Kerry. The aircraft will sit in Dublin because it is for "off island" ops only.

                                How it hasn't got more attention in political circles is beyond me.
                                Last edited by Chuck; 27 June 2019, 22:36.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X